Dr Dino Now Faces 288 Years in Prison

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Martin, Nov 16, 2006.

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  1. Martin

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    "The evangelist says he's not a tax protester, asserting he has no income or property because everything belongs to God. But a 12-person jury deliberated for 2½ hours before finding Hovind and his wife, Jo, guilty of all counts in their tax-fraud case...U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers released Jo Hovind until sentencing but denied Kent Hovind's request to be released. He most likely will be detained at either Escambia County Jail or Santa Rosa County Jail until sentencing" LINK

    I guess "Dr Dino", who does not have a real doctors degree, has not read Romans 13.

    This is what happens when you ignore and twist Scripture. You get yourself in to all types of trouble.
     
  2. Rufus_1611

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    Perhaps, he read James 5:4?
     
  3. Martin

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    "Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth." -Jms 5:4

    Not sure what that has to do with his "degrees" or with his refusal to pay taxes. After all Scripture clearly says that we are to pay tax to whom tax is due (Rom 13:7). There is also the New Testament example of Jesus paying taxes.
     
  4. rbell

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    Knee-jerk reactions aside...Here are Hovind's sins and crimes:
    • Hovind has disregarded Christ's command to "render unto Caesar." (direct disobedience to scriptural command)
    • Hovind has stated, "I don't know why I'm being charged." (Lie)
    • Hovind claims that he is employed by God, receives no income, has no expenses and owns no property. (Lie) He still offers $250K to anyone who can prove evolution. If he has nothing, where does the $250K come from?
    • Hovind failed to pay $473,818 in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes on employees. (Defrauding others)
    • Kent Hovind paid his employees in cash and labeled them "missionaries" to avoid payroll tax and FICA requirements. (Defrauding others; disobeyed scriptural command)
    • Hovind failed to obtain a building permit during the 2002 theme park construction.
    • Hovind has been charged with: Filing a frivolous lawsuit against the IRS, Filing a (false) injunction against an IRS special agent, Filing false complaints against the IRS for false arrest, excessive use of force and theft, and making threats against investigators and those cooperating with the investigation. (those are allegations, not convictions, in the sake of intellectual honesty...but none of these charges have been dismissed out of hand)
    • Hovind and his wife made scores of cash deposits to make the money untraceable. (bearing false witness; let "yes" be "yes")
    • Kent Hovind required his employees to sign nondisclosure agreements if they wanted to keep their jobs. (forced the complicity of others with his felony)
    • Hovind claims that his employer is God--to circumvent taxes. (Lie)
    • None of Hovind's businesses have a license. (see above)
    • Hovind claims he was "never notified" by the IRS...despite the numerous documented letters sent to him (reportedly unopened) by IRS officials. (Lie)
    Sources:
     
  5. Rufus_1611

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    "Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth." - James 5:4 (KJV)​

    He's in trouble for not paying the taxes of others. To keep back the wages of a labourer based on fraudulent tax requirements, might be considered by some, to run contrary to scripture. The IRS was requiring Mr. Hovind to be an agent of the gov't and a publican, he took a stand against it and will potentially spend the next 288 years in jail for it.

    He and his wife are also in trouble for smurfing. This alleged violation of law is nothing more than a thought crime. He nor his wife, filed a form when they took their own money out of their own account. These monies did not exceed the $10,000 requirement but since they were close enough without going over, they got in trouble, a lot of trouble. Seems to me that in a free country, you should be able to withdraw your own money without telling Big Brother about it, but apparently the beast thinks otherwise.
     
  6. rbell

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    Rufus, if you think Hovind is innocent...wow, man, you need help.

    How about dealing with the 12 things I posted?

    And if he's right, then perhaps you should stop paying your taxes, claim God as your employer, assert that you own nothing...I know there's a problem of those statements being lies, but hey...if it's good enough for hovie, then help yourself. I'm sure God won't mind. :rolleyes:

    Bull. He broke the law...and if he was a Godly man, he'd let his employees...priesthood of the believer, baby...deal with God about taxes. Instead, he coerced them into signing forms and receiving wages in forms not allowable by law. He's despicable for using others.

    And shame on you for supporting a liar and fraud.
     
  7. Rufus_1611

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    Once again focusing on me, rather than the issues.

    I don't really like dialoguing with you, so I don't think so.

    God is my employer and I don't work for the gov't. Nor do I own anything material as I am just using it until the state decides to take it away or until God decides to burn it all. If a people can not own property nor can they own true money then they own nothing and are nothing but slaves on the global plantation. Our "wealth" goes to taxation, interest and inflation the very items that the state is supporting so that they can make international bankers wealthy and powerful and so they can hand over that power to their antichrist when the time comes.

    He did not break the law. The only federal "income" tax is based on corporate profit. Having federal "income tax" apply to wages of employees is a fraud.
    Shame on you for your state idolatry and not supporting a persecuted brother in Christ. Mr. Hovind confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, he defends the Bible and defends creationism and you defame him repeatedly. The state that is going after him declare themselves as Lord, promotes secular humanist religion, defame the Bible and promotes evolution and you support them. Do you ever worry about where your loyalties lie?
     
  8. rbell

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    Nope. Just your ridiculous claims.

    Hey, I can't help it if you have no refutations of legal and biblical truth. That's your problem, not mine.

    No He's not. God is much, much more than that. And using that excuse to avoid taxes is Taking the name of the LORD your God in vain. Bad precedent.
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    And what would be the result Bro Rufus if every man became a law unto himself as Hovind has done?

    That is why God lays down the principles in Romans 13. He broke the law, now, he must pay the price for following his convictions. God will judge the rightness or wrongness of Hovind's choices.



    And gentlemen, a kindly moderator reminder here - lets be sure we keep on track and do not resort to name calling and personal attacks.
     
    #9 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2006
  10. rbell

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    continued...

    Once again...you claim to "own" nothing to avoid taxes? That's a falsehood...an intent to deceive. If you do it you are lying. If you support Hovind doing it, then you support one who lies.

    This is a statement of insanity, or delusion. By the way, red koolaid stains, so be careful. You're ignoring scripture, and logic. Do you really think that the tax that Jesus paid was set up with pure motives? That government eventually killed Him, yet He paid taxes.

    Thanks for questioning my faith. That's really classy. Is it possible that someone can be right on one issue (creation) but horribly, horribly wrong on others? I'm not about to support an unrepentant brother in Christ. That isn't Biblical to do so!

    By the way my loyalties lie with Christ Jesus my Lord. And because of that, I obey authorities. You and your buddy Kent should give it a try.

    I encourage you to keep posting.
     
  11. carpro

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    Evidently the IRS established an employer /employee relationship between Hovind and the people he paid. This requires him to withhold federal income taxes and medicare and social security taxes from his employees and forward it to the IRS. Along with it, he was to pay his matching portion dedicated to Social Security for each employee.

    In effect Hovind was saying these people were self employed independent contractors. His failure to withhold taxes makes each individual responsible to declare and pay their own taxes. As self employed individuals, they would also be required to pay the much higher self employment tax in place of Social Security.(Over 13% as opposed to 7.65%)

    By asserting that they were not his employees, he was relieving himself of a ton of paperwork and having to pay his matching portion toward their Social Security and shifting it to the people he paid in cash.

    By doing it the way he did, he placed all the people he paid in jeopardy with the IRS. You can bet most or all of them did not declare their cash income to the IRS.

    Hovind is guilty of a lot of things, not the least of which is stealing from the future of each of his employees by avoiding contributing to their social security funds thus saving money for his own use today.

    The IRS undoubtedly has a name for his crimes. As for me I believe he is guilty of tax evasion and he is a thief.
     
  12. Scott J

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    Actually though you are right about Hovind on many respects, Rufus is right about the income tax... technically. The modern concept is more a product of evolution than legislation. There are people in Congress who know it and have been attempting to change us to a system that is not legally questionable.

    After legalized by the 16th Amendment, the direct tax was only applied to "income" which was synonomous for "profit" for the next 40 years. During WW2, a voluntary "victory" tax began to be administered where high wage earners gave a percentage. It was never decommissioned and became something no one questioned. It effected a relatively small percentage of wage earners... people who themselves thought they could afford it. Liberal dominance of Congress ensured that the brackets weren't adjusted. Progressively more and more people were capture until virtually everyone was paying and no one questioned why.

    The IRS still refers to it as a "voluntary" system. What law requires one to self-incriminate? What law requires one to prove they aren't guilty of owing more? Only the income tax.

    From the moment you "volunteer" to pay by signing forms, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent or the statute of limitations passes.
     
  13. Rufus_1611

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    Any law that is written that is inconsistent with the constitution is unlawful. Mr. Hovind was not becoming a law unto himself but rather following the law of the land. Any direct taxes upon the citizenry of the United States are supposed to be apportioned to the states. The 16th amendment which was never ratified was alleged to have changed this but the supreme court ruled that this provided no new taxable authority.

    According to the constitution Congress is responsible:
    To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures; ​

    Notice the word "coin". Notice too that "money" is defined as:

    1. A piece of metal, as gold, silver, copper, etc., coined, or stamped, and issued by the sovereign authority as a medium of exchange in financial transactions between citizens and with government; also, any number of such pieces; coin.

    2. Any written or stamped promise, certificate, or order, as a government note, a bank note, a certificate of deposit, etc., which is payable in standard coined money and is lawfully current in lieu of it;(Source: Webster's 1828)​

    Thus, the paper that you have in your wallet does not represent money.

    In 1913 the Federal Reserve Act served as the essential cog in the overthrow of a government by the people and for the people and an essential component to a new world order and a key factor for why all those occult symbols are on those reserve notes.

    The Federal Reserve is not a component of the U.S. Federal Gov't as it is a privately owned organization. Neither does this entity issue notes that are based on gold or silver reserves. All it does is counterfeit money out of thin air based on nothing and then charge the U.S. Gov't interest on the notes. Since we know that the borrower is servant to the lender, we then must know that the U.S. Gov't is servant to the Federal Reserve/International Bankers rendering the citizens of the U.S. also servants to these interests. If we base law on the constitution we realize that all the Federal Reserve represents is organized crime. Since the Federal Reserve is not an elected body of the people and it is a private organization, Mr. Hovind was basically defying an organization that has no more authority than Wal-Mart or Radio Shack.

    All crime syndicates need a Guido and the Guido for the Federal Reserve is known as the IRS. This entity encourages "voluntary compliance" and self-incrimination via the threat of force, not the rule of law, as they have no law that demonstrates that U.S. citizens are required to pay Federal Income taxes.

    Many Americans think of themselves to be Patriots as they will rah rah the flag and celebrate the fourth of July. However, when patriots such as Thomas Jefferson are quoted as saying this...

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President. ​

    ...they don't seem to make the connection that the power of money creation has been granted to the banks rather than the representatives of the people, just as Jefferson warned against.

    They also don't seem to make the connection that the founding fathers of America were tax protesters. Thus, how people can celebrate the fourth of July, celebrate the patriots that gave us the Bill of Rights and a constitution that forbade a central bank and then today chastise a patriot pointing out these iniquities is a complete disconnect to patriotism. These same individuals will often rail against slavery and not realize that we have stepped into the trap of slavery ourselves.

    If a military enemy invaded our shores, I imagine most would consider it proper to defend the land. However, when an economic enemy invades our land, it would seem that many believe we are supposed to nod our heads and not defend our rights just because Jesus pulled a denarius out of a fish. Consider that world government is being accomplished primarily through economic powers and secondarily through military might. This world gov't is certainly not proChrist so how would we conceive Mr. Hovind's actions to be opposed to Christ if he is standing against what is antichrist?

    Mr. Hovind had nothing to gain personally by taking on this fight. It has cost him and his family dearly temporally. I suspect that it is possible that his intent was to demonstrate to people with eyes to see of the wickedness of the system currently in place and I pray that it woke up at least one person.

    Perhaps then they will see that the current fiat currency will fail just like Germany's did. Or when, just like Stalin's Soviet Union and Hitler's Germany, you're asked to take a national ID (RealID May 2008) you will think twice. Or when, just like Mao, Stalin, Hitler and New Orleans, you are required to give up your guns, you will consider your response. Or when the alleged pandemic breaks out and they require you to take a vaccine, filled with who knows what, then perhaps you'll refuse it. Or when the United States disappears and becomes part of the North American Union you will not be surprised. Or unique to all ages, when you are caused to take an imbedded chip you will consider that death may be a better alternative.

    I call on Christians to stop being good Republicans, stop being good Democrats, end the idolatrous nationalism, pledge their allegiance to Jesus Christ and to their fellow Christians and wake up to what is happening within our land.

    For people who can make better arguments than I, please read anything ever written by Representative Ron Paul who may be the last constitutionalist in gov't or Devvy Kid who is often published on Newswithviews.com.

    Also, please watch this documentary before you take a position on this issue America - Freedom to Fascism.
     
  14. rbell

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    Or better yet, follow scriptures and obey the rulers over you, pay your taxes, and stay out of jail.

    Romans 13:1-7 (not in Hovind's manuscripts):
    Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
    Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
    For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
    For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
    Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
    Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


    Or you can rebel against God and hang out w/Kent.:laugh:
     
  15. carpro

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    It appears that means we have to do away with Social Security taxes. I agree it's a lousy system, but it's all we have and I doubt the states are capable of handling it.
     
  16. rbell

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    Is our system broken? Yes.

    Do I see stupidity in areas of our taxation? For sure.

    Does it give me a right as a believer to disobey the God-ordained authorities over me? No.
     
  17. Rufus_1611

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    "1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

    2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

    3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

    4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

    6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

    7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. - Romans 13:1-7 (KJV)​

    "Tribute to whom tribute is due"...according to the law, these individuals are not due this tribute.

    Was Jonathan a rebel when he went against Saul to warn David? Were the few Christians that opposed Hitler wrong to do such? It can not be wrong to oppose that which is evil. The current administration is ordained of God and will do evil against those who do evil. However, the righteous should stand opposed so that they may do "that which is good".

    "Thou shalt not steal" - Exodus 20:15

    This verse establishes that people have a right to property. It would seem logical that this right establishes that it is a wrong for gov't to steal that property.

    "Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good." - Proverbs 20:23

    According to the above verse our current monetary system is an abomination to the Lord. Only but a few cry out against this abomination but many cry out against those who oppose it.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." - Declaration of Independance ​

    Did your creator endow you with unalienable rights that included liberty? What is more oppresive to liberty than excessive illegal taxation? Notice that this document calls for abolishing the government that becomes destructive to the security of these rights. Were the founders of this nation wrong to rebel against a king over these issues? If yes, then Hovind is wrong and we need to stop celebrating American independance. If no, then Hovind is right and we can take pride in our history.

    "It would be thought a hard Government that should tax its People one tenth Part of their Time, to be employed in its Service." - Benjamin Franklin ​

    If Franklin thought it to be a hard gov't that would tax its people one tenth of their time, what do you suppose he would think of a gov't that would tax 48-52% as the average Joe now pays in all the various forms of taxation?

    Do you consider yourself closer aligned to a republican form of government or a communist one? Is a graduated income tax closer to an element of republican government or is it more closely aligned to a communist one?

    What did you think of the documentary?
     
  18. James_Newman

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    Just like the Hebrew midwives had no right to disobey Pharoah? If Kent Hovind has a conscientious objection to stealing money from his "employees" on behalf of the IRS, how can he serve two masters? It's one thing to pay taxes, its another alltogether to become a tax collector.
     
    #18 James_Newman, Nov 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2006
  19. carpro

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    I wouldn't ascribe any noble motives to Hovind. It appears that his real motive was to feather his own nest at the expense of his employees.
     
  20. rbell

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    Rufus said,
    Pro-life Libertarian, actually...but thanks for the insinuation. But I just have this thing about pastors not telling the truth.

    When Christians go against the law based on a "higer calling," they cannot do so in a manner that is in any way sinful. Hovind has done so through deceit, and he has coerced his employees into playing his game. That's wrong, no matter how you cut it.

    Guys, if you feel Hovind has a right to not pay taxes, you must at least admit that he cannot lie and deceive to accomplish those goals. Remember: Hovind has...

    Hovind has disregarded Christ's command to "render unto Caesar." (direct disobedience to scriptural command)
    Hovind has stated, "I don't know why I'm being charged." (Lie)
    Hovind claims that he is employed by God, receives no income, has no expenses and owns no property. (Lie) He still offers $250K to anyone who can prove evolution. If he has nothing, where does the $250K come from?
    Hovind failed to pay $473,818 in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes on employees. (Defrauding others)
    Kent Hovind paid his employees in cash and labeled them "missionaries" to avoid payroll tax and FICA requirements. (Defrauding others; disobeyed scriptural command)
    Hovind failed to obtain a building permit during the 2002 theme park construction.
    Hovind has been charged with: Filing a frivolous lawsuit against the IRS, Filing a (false) injunction against an IRS special agent, Filing false complaints against the IRS for false arrest, excessive use of force and theft, and making threats against investigators and those cooperating with the investigation. (those are allegations, not convictions, in the sake of intellectual honesty...but none of these charges have been dismissed out of hand)
    Hovind and his wife made scores of cash deposits to make the money untraceable. (bearing false witness; let "yes" be "yes")
    Kent Hovind required his employees to sign nondisclosure agreements if they wanted to keep their jobs. (forced the complicity of others with his felony)
    Hovind claims that his employer is God--to circumvent taxes. (Lie)
    None of Hovind's businesses have a license. (see above)
    Hovind claims he was "never notified" by the IRS...despite the numerous documented letters sent to him (reportedly unopened) by IRS officials. (Lie)

    I just don't see a guy standing up to government abuses. I see a guy who thinks the law doesn't apply to him, and has decided to be a law unto himself. He's being a terrible witness.

    And unlike the picture Rufus wishes to paint, it is my wish that 90% of our government (and subsequent tax burden) would go away. But as a Christian and a man of God I can't simply not do what is asked by those who rule over me just because it's inconvenient.

    I've seen nothing that gives me any reason to doubt that Hovind is a liar and a fraud.
     
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