Dr. Graham answered my letter

Amen, Sister computerjunkie -- Preach it!

I also visted a home of a respondee.
This was back in 1968. It was a movie
instead of a personal appearance.

Billy Graham is the most prolific evangelist
EVER. Billy Graham spoke before 210 MIllion
people -- the population of the whole
world in 65AD when Paul was writing his
books. Billy Graham is the best Christian
evangelist of the 2ed millinnium (1001-2000),
nay the Best CHristian evangelist EVER.

 

Amen, Sister TexasSky and Brother Ed Edwards -- Preach it!

I am amazed that Baptists are so critical of an aging brother in Christ who has shared the gospel with more people than all of us combined will ever come in contact.

CJ

 

1 Samuel 24:6 (KJV1611 Edition)
David speaks of Saul:
And hee sayd vnto his men, The Lord forbid that I should doe this thing vnto my master the Lords Anoynted, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the Anoynted of the Lord.

 

I'm with Pastor Larry. It's not how you start the race but how you end it.

 

My niece has worked in BGEA for many years (about 12) and has loved working there. A man from our church in FL recently took a positon with BGEA. They contacted his (our) pastor, interviewed him about this mans faith, and how faithful he attended/ was involved in our church (Indep. Baptist), and were very thorough about the background and interview process. Since BGEA is managed by people, there will be mistakes, but they really try to do things right. I saw Billy's office in N.C. - very modest, he has not accumulated much compared to other "evangelists" yet has stayed true to the gospel. I attended college (1 yr) with Frank, and he, according to my niece, is more conservative than Billy. It will be interesting to follow his ministry.

VW

 

I'll see what I can dig up.

 

I have many of his books and could not fault one of them, his book on the Holy Spirit is the best I have read on the topic of what it means to understand that the Holy Spirit is the equal third member of the Trinity.

 

Do you agree then with this statement from that book ?

Addressing the baptism of the Spirit and the matter of assurance Graham says “’I’ve seen people in our crusades come forward more than once, and not experience the assurance of their salvation until the third or fourth time. When were they regenerated? Only God the Holy Spirit knows; it might have been at baptism or confirmation and they come forward for assurance.”

Presumably he includes in that remark those who were 'baptised' as babies thus giving credance to baptismal regeneration as taught by RCC and others.

 

Presumably? I am not so sure he should be condemmed on what he may have said.

Baptism and confirmation both happen in many churches to teenagers.

The remarks say "It Might", not It did happen!

 

But remember what I and others have been pointing out ... It is not his preaching, as weak as his gospel is it that is disconcerting. It is his statements in various interviews dating back more than 30 years where he says that people might get to heaven without faith in Christ. That is not the "true story of salvation in Christ" no matter which way you cut it. And that failure to speak truth is compromise in the moment of battle.

You need to look again then. I am neither ugly nor bitter. I love God and his word. I love the gospel. I love obedience. Out of my love for God and Scripture, and out of my desire to be obedient to everything God says, I am compelled to obey verses like Rom 16:17-18, and others, and to follow the pattern set by Paul in Gal 2 where he publicly confronted Peter for his compromise of the gospel. It is also amazing to me that in these discussions no one ever wants to talk about actual Scripture.

Then you need to read more here, and come and visit. I have shared the gospel in this thread and others like it, pointing out that salvation is by Christ alone, and that those of "other faiths" do not have salvation. In another forum I have repeatedly shared the gospel that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. I have taken numerous cyber beatings from people because of my stance that churches that teach a works based salvation are not truly preaching the gospel.

I am not eager to condemn anyone. My heart grieves when I think of what Graham could have accomplished for hte cause of Christ had he stayed faithful. It breaks my heart to see someone with so much potential and integrity that is above reproach go down the road that he did when the people who were closest to him warned him not to.

I think this is a large part of the problem. I have seen Graham preach once or twice on TV. I have read his autobiography. But more importantly, I have seen the documented facts of the matter. Where you are operating on "personal experience" which is clouding your judgment, I am operating off of what has been documented over the years. I have no axe to grind. I am simply responding to what Graham has said and done over the years, comparing it to what God says we should be doing.

That's no different than any religion. The fact of prayer is common to all. The God to whom we pray is not. Furthemore, prayer does not offset the responsibility for obedience, and that is really where the issue is.

This is manifestly not true, given their acceptance of counselors from the RCC over the years.

Graham has been confronted for more years than I have been alive by people he knows and respects. He has rejected it. He has made these statements and actions publicly, and part of our responsibility is to be biblical and warn others. The Bible does not require that each individual confront false teachers or disobedient brothers. It requires that someone do it. If this were a new issue, we could let it play out before speaking. But it isn't. Graham has made us choice. And now we must make ours. We must decide whose side we are on. All those who love God and his truth, and who love their neighbor, need to stand up and say that Graham did some good things, but he is disobedient and his gospel is now suspect. Let's not waffle in the face of political pressure.

 

I agree with Graham. It might have been, but it might not have been.

 

I got the same exact letter about 2 years ago when I questioned the Robert Schuller interview.
I received it as an email, but from what I remember it sounded identical.

 

The choice is to see things as us vs them or to see things as us vs us.

I think that many Baptists are also disobedient and their gospel is even more suspect than Graham's. Of course I believe those who fall under this to be a completely different group from the ones you think fall under this category. I guess the solution is for us to anathemize and separate from each other so that we are individual silos of faith, instead of working together as a community of believers and working out our disagreements in line with the words of Paul in Ephesians 4.

 

It would seem (I say this because I don't KNOW him personally) that Billy Graham has a great love for people and really wants people to be saved and feel the love of God.

To deny that Christ is the only way to heaven reflects serious theological problems - but we should not equate this with showing respect to nonChristians or preaching without fire and brimstone. I've read several of his books - and I have no reason to believe Billy consideres Jesus unecessary.

Jesus said he would leave His 99 sheep to search for the one which was lost. I doubt He meant that he would threaten that sheep until it was scared into returning. Billy (wisely) sees that showing love is the best witness. Telling a sinner he is a sinner may be true - but it's less likely to bring him back into fellowship with a God who still is offerring salvation (free!) to sinners.

Still, I cannot help but think of the times that the Pharisees grumbled about Jesus going to eat and fellowship with tax collecters. Jesus showed sinners love first.

 

Not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds pious enough for me.

I agree that many Baptists are disobedient and preach a weak gospel. I would treat them in the same way I have Graham, with loving exposure and confrontation based on Scripture alone, not on personal experience, likes and dislikes, or number of people reached. I am not sure what category you would put them under. The issue is not someone's denominational affiliation per se. It is whether or not they hold to and preach right doctrine and are obedient to God's word. That is all that matters.

I think we should work together, but if you read Eph 4 and the rest of the NT, you see that cooperation is based on unity of faith and obedience. Graham and I apparently do not believe the same thing, based on what he says. I think there is no hope for Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, or other religions unless they come to personal conscious faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that because God said it. Graham says they might have hope. I cannot fellowship or cooperate with someone who says that. We don't believe the same gospel. Furthermore, I am under strict orders from God to mark, expose, and separate from those who teach contrary to the doctrine that we have received. Once again, Graham is in that statement as one who has taught by word and life contrary to the doctrine we received. He has accepted sponsorship and cooperation from people he should have been correcting and separating from. He has taught that people might be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.

 

No doubt, but is that really the issue? I don't think so. Motives and desires are important, but so is obedience. Just as Uzzah ...

But look at what he has said and failed to say over thirty years. He has, at the very least, sent mixed messages. But I believe he has done far more than that. No one is talking about "fire and brimstone" or not showing respect to other people. Don't confuse the issue.

If you don't tell him he is a sinner, then why does he need to be saved? The most unloving thing you can do is fail to tell someone they are a sinner. If you don't tell him he is a sinner, he doesn't even know he is out of fellowship with God, or as least doesn't know why he is out of fellowship with God. And lastly, theologically, a sinner is not brought "back into fellowship" with God. He never had fellowship with God.

I am not suggesting anything differently. But Graham is not talking about eating and fellowship with tax collectors. What he has done is more on the line of fellowshipping with the Pharisees. If all Graham did was hang around with the sinners, I would have no problem. But he joined hands in cooperation with false teachers, thus giving credence to them and to their message. Can you imagine Christ having a Pharisee open in prayer at one of his sessions? Can you imagine Christ sending his disciples back to learn and grow at one of their synagogues? I can't ... becuase Scripture gives no example. There is not one iota of biblical evidence for the things that Graham has done in this regard. Let's not confuse it because he is a good man of personal integrity. Let's not get personalities and apparent successes in the way. Let's just look at the facts.

 

Not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds pious enough for me.</font>[/QUOTE]Pious? I don't see any piety there. More like trite philosophical hogwash.

It is very likely that those you think are weak, I think are strong and that those you think are strong I think are weak. While I am supportive of loving confrontation and exposure, I also recognize that doing so means I must be open to receiving the same and being shown that I am wrong.

Right doctrine is important and we should all be striving for orthodoxy, sometimes by learning from those we think have wrong doctrine when in fact it is us who is wrong.

This is a great passage to study more deeply. Grammatically, is Paul saying that working together is contingent on unity or is seeking unity contingent on working together?

So you must separate with anyone who agrees with you but with less certainty than what you have about that doctrine. I guess all of us should be as certain as Pastor Larry about everything Pastor Larry is certain about or else we are false prophets.

And also those who are less certain about the doctrines that are not contrary to that we have recieved.

Fortunately, Graham like someone else in the scriptures does not seek man's approval for who he should associate with.