Dr. Martin Luther King Jr..

"What about Jimmy Swaggert?"
The man whose private life strikingly resembles that of MLK?

Dr. Bob Griffin
You a serious Calvinist believe in appealing to man's better nature
Personally I wouldn't be surprised that if both the civil war and the civil rights movement had never happened there would have been slavery in the CSA to this very day.
I'm certainly not saying that the non-forcefull approach couldn't have worked better, but still you Southerners strike me as even more proud and stubborn than those Yankee types.

paidagogos
"he was Marxist, at best socialist, in philosophy."
Having read Marx (not something one does for fun by the way) I feel secure to say that MLK was not a Marxist.

"As a parallel, Adolph Hitler did much to improve Germany but we don’t celebrate his birthday."
The good Hitler did for Germany in the 30's is highly overrated, his policies were bankrupting the nation.

"Am I better off because of MLK? No way! Now, I have to worry about everything I say to avoid the racist label since I am from Dixie."
If it makes you feel better, my parents and grandparents already thought most white people from Dixie were racists in the early 50's before MLK entered the scene.

"I don’t think blacks are necessarily better off either because they have been relegated to minority status permanently."
Something that could not have happened without the KKK burning cross on people's front lawns.

 

I have no use for Jimmy Swaggart. If the man would have been on his knees as much as he claimed to have been, he wouldn't have had time to cruise around looking for women - he would have been filled with the power of Almighty God and his eyes focused on spiritual things rather than things of the flesh. That goes for any "preacher" no matter what the color of their skin.

"To whom much is given, much is required."

So...being relegated to minority status permanently is a good thing?

 

"So...being relegated to minority status permanently is a good thing?"
Only if being hung by the neck from the nearest popular tree is.

 

I think King did help better things for blacks and that Southern State governments overreacted to him. That does not mean however I am a fan of King. He did have associations with socialists and was a theological liberal.

I think it is a shame to have such a big celebration of the MLK holiday and barely even recognize the birthday of the greatest American - George Washighton. It is hypocritical for many Conservative politicians to laud praises for a man whose politics were leftist.

 

Holidays are not conferred on persons based on their theological stance. If so, Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln wouldn't be eligble for Holidays either. For what it's worth, I'm no fan of many King's theological stances either. But I do recognize his achievements in the area of civil rights that were much needed.

You're kidding, aren't you? Do you not know your history?

Jefferson's long-time affair with one of his slaves is well-documented, and his decendents from slave Sally Hemmings are alive today. Their genetic link to Thomas Jefferson has been confirmed via DNA testing.

George Washington's liaisons with Henrietta Liston (wife of the British minister to the U.S.), Elizabeth Willing Powel (wife of the last British mayor of Philadelphia), and childhood squeeze Sally Fairfax, were among the worst kept secrets at the time.

Christopher Columbus had an illegimate son, which is a well-documented and undisputed part of history. Columbus carried on a years long affair with a shipmate's sister, and never married.

 

The stuff about Washington is a bunch of lies. Part of it came from General Motors in a corporate sponsorship of a PBS show. General Motors drew the disgust of the American people for that sponsorship of revisionist history. Someone else substituted Jefferson for Lincoln on these boards. Jefferson is a mixed bag politically. I have never heard Lincoln accused of adultery although Indianapolis African-Americans generally despise Lincoln as "just another lying Republican."

The accusations about MLK are beyond dispute. No one has ever said that they were false. However, Ralph Abernathy before he died was strongly condemned for letting the truth out. Abernathy is never mentioned anymore because of his truth-telling. To admire King as a preacher one has to admire Jimmy Swaggert, I guess. Actually, King was more like the cultist Father Devine, who kept a harem.

On the Columbus case, I confess ignorance of any adulteries, but I do know that he said that he felt that he had been guided by the Holy Spirit to sail to find the New World.

 

Mioque, how do you pronounce your cybername? I keep reading it and thinking "Monique," but it's not that unless my bifocals are worse than I think.

 

The stuff about Columbus is probaby junk made up by the RCC or other anti-Semites, since there seems to be a preponderance of the evidence that our Chris Columbus was a Spanish Jew.

http://www.shofar.org/shalom/8612_christopher_columbus.htm

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but I didn't bring up the allegations about Columbus, anyway....and since this thread has already taken many twists and turns...

 

"Mioque, how do you pronounce your cybername?"
To a native Englishspeaker.
m=m
i=e
o=o
que = k
Mioque is pronounced Meok..
It was apparently the name of a Bretonnian miller's guild. It occasionally shows up as a last name nowadays. I picked it out of a French phonebook, because I needed a cybername not connected to me in any way. I picked a 'French' name because some of my ancestors were hugenot refugees from France.

Question: Why would General Motors want to smear the name of George Washington?

LadyEagle
Sorry, but that Columbus site, not convincing in the slightest.

 

I'm not sure what allegations about Comumbus and Judaism have to do with the topic. The contention was abut Columbus and immorality. He had an illegitimate son, and lived with a woman for years without benefit of marriage. Regardless, his constibution to discovering the New World is worthy of a holiday (he discovered Puerto Rico, mistaking it for the East Indies, hence the term "Indian" was given to the native peoples). BTW, Columbus' ethnicity was Italian.

The idea that Washington (who, btw, was a dedicated Freemason) couldn't keep his own pants zipped does not and should not detract from him being a man of greatness.

Jefferson's adultery, as non-Christian status, does not in any way diminish his overwhelming contributions to the birth of this great nation.

As for Lincoln, there's never been evidence to suggest that he had been unfaithful to his wife. Some people question his Christianity, but he was in all likelihood a Christian.

MLK's liberal theology and comunist sympathies do not diminish his contribution to the civil rights movement for which he has been recognized.

Even folks like Gen Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Frederick Douglass, Robert Gould Shaw, Medgar Evers, and are heroes in their own right.

These men are heroes. They're not superheroes. They're not perfect. They're not worthy of deification. But their contributions are worthy of recognition.

 

Must we be so crude? You are in mixed company. Good grief.

They didn't have zippers back then anyway.

 

Oops... I meant to say "kept his knickers laced".

 

I can't help but wonder why we are supposed to accept all this bologna about the Founding Fathers based on here say and personal opinion with no credible links to back up these wild claims.


Ah, but such is the way of sliming. At least when I provide info, I provide links. (Whether or not they are credible is up to the reader to decide, LOL)

Jefferson's philanderings with his slave have been proven by DNA and are well known. He does not have a National Holiday where everyone gets off from work and schools are closed for a three day weekend proclaiming him as some sort of hero, although one might be nice since he signed the Declaration of Independence.

If we are going to celebrate Civil Rights, perhaps we should rename the holiday for the President who actually signed the Civil Rights Law - that would make more sense.


So I ask you, do you have credible links to back up the claims about all these other folks you have slimed?

Why would that be, is it because it is a Jewish site?

 

I believe I remember, the accusations of George Washington's adultery brought up in a history class of mine (Way back in the 1980's!)and it was mocked by my History Professer as having no validity but was rubbish.

Of course I do not think Martin Luther King Jr. is in the same league as Washington but then again few Americans are.

 

Hmm, let's see. George Washington's own hands penned the words:

“Doubt it not, nor expose it — the World has no business to know the object of my Love.”

He was writing to Sally Fairfax, the wife of his neighbor, with whom Washington had had a long-time secret affiar. Throughout Washington's life, the Fairfaxes remained close to the Washington's.

Now as for Columbus, there's no dispute at all about the fact that he lived with a woman out of marriage, and that he had an illegitimate son. History shows that Columbus had two sons. One was a the product of his fornication with Beatrice de Haran, who was his mistress. He would not marry her probably because she was a commoner which might interfere with his ambition to climb into the aristocratic class. Italian Americans tried to have Columbus sainted by the Catholic Church, but it was refused because of this.

 

So? That means they were having a sordid affair?

How do you know GW was talking about eros? Perhaps he was speaking of phileo or storge, or agape love. How bout them apples?

That is conjecture, your opinion or assumption, not proof. So what if the Fairfaxes remained close to the Washingtons - that means they were wife swapping?

People actually can be friends without indulging in adultery. Even neighbors.

Your "proof" is LAME.

This revisionist history really makes me sick.

 

If you want to believe a lie, that's fine. It's interesting that your silence in regards to Columbus is deafening. The only reason you said anything about Jefferson is because it's irrefutable. You'll do anything to avoid saying "John, you were right" in regards to Jefferson and Columbus, won't you .

You are correct, however, about the fact that Jefferson, not having a holiday named after him per se, need not be included in the discussion (although, I think a holiday honoring the Framers of the Constion, and/or the Signers of the Declaration of Independence is worthy of consideration).

I don't think Jefferson is "slimed" by his fornication. Neither do I think Columbus is. Neither do I think Washington is. That's just the way these folks were, warts and all. They were men of greatness, nonetheless. On that point, there can be no agruement.

 

That's usually what cheating husbands say when caught.

If your husband wrote a note like that to your neighbor's wife, would you be inclined to think they were just friends? Or would you go after your husband's private parts with a machete?

George Washington and Sally Fairfax communicated via letters like these their entire lives. THe idea that they were in love is no secret. However, While the letters are not completely conclusive of adultery, it is definitely of great suspicion, and it is likely. If Howard Dean were to have written letters like that and it became public, we republicans would be all over it like white on rice.

 

A man and woman can love each other without it leading to adultery. Especially back then. Women were held in the highest esteem and even were put on pedestals. Men would challenge each other to a deadly duel if a lady's honor was smudged, unlike today's immoral society where women have let themselves be treated like meat and objects of men's wicked imaginations. So if anything was going on, history may have well included a deadly duel over your presumption.

To compare the morality of yesteryear as the same as morality today is just rather ridiculous.

I seriously doubt if General Washington had time to dash off for a laiason with his neighbor's wife in between leading the troops to battle, especially since the going was often on foot or horseback.

Maybe you should try writing romance novels, Johnv.

But so far, you have offered no "proof" just conjecture.

 

And still no acknowlegement about Columbus or Jefferson.

C'mon, deep breath, say it with me: "John, you were right".

Is it really that hard? I've said it about you, in fact, I just said it a few posts up.