Dr. Stanley and Eternal Security

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    After listening to Dr. Stanley recently on the subject of eternal securtiy, I got the impression that he is saying that once you have been saved, it doesn't matter how you live after, because you are eternally saved.

    I thought it mattered how you live as a confirmation of your salvation (2 Pet.1:10,11). Did I misunderstand him?
     
  2. Hope of Glory

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    Well, as far as your everlasting salvation goes, it doesn't matter how you live. That was paid for by the finished work of Jesus on the cross. What must I do to be saved? Believe, plus nothing, on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

    However, it does matter how you live after you become a part of the family of God. It affects your inheritance; it affects your rewards; it affects the salvation of your soul.
     
  3. Brother Bob

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    God help us all............
     
  4. PastorSBC1303

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    Can you explain how this works?

    It does not affect salvation. Yet it affects the salvation of your soul?
     
  5. TCGreek

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    Quite an observation. I think that is what we call a contradiction. A clarification is in order.
     
  6. J. Jump

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    Not a contradiction at all. Unfortunately somewhere along the line of history Christendom has become confused on salvation.

    Today when you hear about eternal salvation you hear about people "soul winning" and what not. However eternal salvation does not have anything to do with your soul per se, but rather your spirit.

    When Adam and Eve died they died spiritually. I was there spirits that were cut off from communion with God, because God is essence is Spirit and we must worship Him in "spirit" and truth. They were dead spiritually and we today are dead spiritually.

    When we believe on the Lord Jesus our spirits are made alive and passed from death unto life. This is a one-time act that never has to be repeated, because the spirit can never return to a dead state.

    Once our spirit is alive we are then capable of understanding God's deeper message which is the salvation of the soul.

    The soul and the spirit are not the same thing, although there are a number in Christendom that would have us believe they are.

    The salvation of the soul is also referred to as sanctification. It has to do with discipleship.

    Scripture talks about salvation in the past, present and future tenses. We have been saved (spirit), we should be in the process of being saved (soul) and we will be saved in the future (realization of the salvation of the soul is in the future) and our bodies will be saved in the future.

    One of the biggest reasons we know abou the difference between spiritual salvation and soulical salvation, if you will, is because of the warnings in Scripture.

    Christendom normally handles these warnings in one of two ways, which both are incorrect according to Scripture. One group says the warnings are not for believers, while the other group says the warning are for believers and that's why eternal salvaiton is conditional.

    However Scripture says eternal salvation is not conditional, but these warnings are for believers, so what is conditional? The salvation of the soul. It is conditioned on our believing (unto the end) and producing the works that we were created for.

    Not only is it not a contradiction, but it is the only view that brings everything in Scripture into complete harmony.
     
  7. PastorSBC1303

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    So your spirit can be saved and not your soul, and vice versa?

    Can you show me an example of this Biblically and in Christian history?
     
  8. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    all this two salvations and the saved person spending 1000 years in hell has never been proved biblically. It cannot be proved because it is not true.
     
  9. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    It is true we are saved 'by grace through faith', but if works do not follow, it was not a saving faith in the first place.

    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    It is a dead faith, not even able to save.
     
  10. Amy.G

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    JJump:
    Did the soul die as well? If the spirit (which is dead as you say) is saved by faith in Christ, what saves the soul? Works? If the soul did not die, why does it need salvation? If the soul is saved through works, then this scripture is not true:

    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2)

    According to you salvation of the soul is accomplished by works, where as salvation of the spirit is by grace through faith in Christ.

    We are not saved by works. Period. Our spirit, soul and body are saved by grace through faith in Christ or none of them are saved. You cannot be partially saved.
     
  11. webdog

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    There's been quite of few threads on it here. Search Millenial Exclusion or as they like to call it...the Gospel of the Kingdom.
     
  12. StefanM

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    I disagree with you on many things, but you are "dead on" with this one! :thumbs:
     
  13. drfuss

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    In Stanley's 1990 book on Eternal Security, he goes further than that. In his book, he indicates that even if you stop trusting Christ, you are still eternally saved. About a year ago, I started a thread on Stanley's position, and this was discussed.
     
  14. Zenas

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    Eternal security of the believer is a dangerous doctrine that Charles Stanley has taken to the ultimate extreme, as has the Baptist Faith and Message. Yes, there are passages that suggest eternal security but when you adopt them as doctrine, you must discard passages such as Galations 5:4 and Luke 8:5-15. Scripture cannot be read selectively, so that passages not supporting one's own views are simply ignored. The only way to harmonize all these passages is through a doctrine of saved by grace, sustaining your salvation by works. Philippians 2:12.
     
  15. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    The soul is the seat of the intellect, mind, will, emotions, etc.

    If you are soul-saved, but not spirit-saved, you are not saved at all. You have just made an intellectual decision.

    People use the spirit and soul interchangeably, but it is not really so.

    We are a spirit, living in a body, with a soul.

    Yes, we can live however we want and still be saved, but it is not expedient for us to do so for we will never grow spiritually. If we are truly saved, we will desire God's Word and will in our lives.

    Salvation is NOT a license to sin...
     
    #15 I Am Blessed 24, Jun 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2007
  16. J. Jump

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    Yes you can have a saved spirit and not realize the salvation of your soul. What would it profit a man to gain the whole world but forfeit (lose) his soul. That was to believers. But it doesn't go vice versa. You can not have a saved soul, but an unsaved spirit. The salvation of the spirit always and must come first.

    Well the vast majority of the New Testament is in regard to the salvation of the soul. Very little is actually said about eternal salvation in Scripture, because it is a very simple message. Christendom has complicated the message so much that a lot of Christendom thinks the vast majority of the New Testament is about eternal salvation, which is kind of confusing why we would need so many books to explain a message that is supposed to be simple enough for a child to understand.

    If you will take the time to study the matter out it is the only thing that allows Scripture to interpret Scripture. As you can already see on this thread there are those that are saying that salvation can not be unconditional because of certain passages. So either we have a contradiction in Scripture or the texts don't really mean what these people are advocating.

    I pray you will take the time to look into these matters. If you would like to I would be more than happy to engage in a one-on-one conversation, because this thread is liable to take off in all kinds of directions :) They usually do.
     
  17. J. Jump

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    I see no Biblical evidence that the soul died. As IAB has said the soul is basically the avenue for a person's agenda. Their will, desires, etc. After the fall the soul is certainly corrupt.

    Actually the book of James describes it as a faith that works. Nothing can be accomplished outside of faith, so it is not by works alone, but by a faith that produces works.

    Because it is corrupt. It is still in darkness. And the best reason is because God said it needs saved :).

    Actually that text is 100% True, because it is talking about eternal salvation. It is talking about the salvation of the spirit. Our spirit is saved in the past, a one-time event that is never to be repeated and can never be undone.

    This text alone is enough to prove that eternal salvation is unconditional. That is the reason why when someone brings up other texts that seem to say that salvation is a process and not a one-time act they can not be talking about eternal salvation, because that would contradict this text as well as Acts 16:30-31.

    Actually according to Scripture, because what I say means ZERO, the salvation of the soul is accomplsihed by a faith that works, and the salvation of the spirit is by grace through faith apart from works of our, but faith in the finished work of Jesus the Lamb.

    Well the book of James and portions of Romans would disagree with you. How are you going to get those two to mesh with your absolute statement that works are never involved in any portion of salvation? I look forward to your response.

    Can you back that up with Scripture?

    Can you back that up with Scripture?
     
  18. J. Jump

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    That's an impossibility. You can not have a saved soul and not a saved spirit. Actually no one that is living has a saved soul, because the salvation of the soul is a life-long process and the realization is not seen until the end of the process or as Peter says the end of your faith. We have not come to the end of our faith yet.
     
  19. skypair

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    I hold (vice IamBlessed16, JJump, Hopeof Glory, others) that soul (conscience) is saved eternally and spirit (mind, emotions, and will) are sanctified daily. I hope all can get around this difference and understand my explanation.

    The SOUL is saved eternally upon repentance and reception of Christ. Rom 5:10 tells us "saved by His death ... much more saved by His life." This is the precise issue here --- soul saved by His death, spirit saved by living His life per James.

    But our mind, emotions, and will (our "spirit") are under attack daily. We don't always choose right. We appear to be lost and, for that day, maybe we did "lose." But in eternity, that is not so. "God cannot deny Himself." He made a promise "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.?" At the Bema, you may require a huge "cleanup crew" :laugh:, 1Cor 3, but you'll be saved!

    skypair
     
  20. Accountable

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    How can you add the word "but" when you are talking about grace?

    You are saved....but.....

    I don't find this in my Bible.

    I agree with Brother Jump and Hope of Glory on this.
    Salvation is free, rewards are earned.

    The soul is being saved where is the spirit has been saved.
     
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