Dragons and Sea Monsters oh My!

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by EaglewingIS4031, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. EaglewingIS4031

    EaglewingIS4031
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    In Ps. 148:7
    The KJV says "dragons."
    The NASB, HCSB, RSV, TEV, & CEV say "sea monsters."
    The NIV, NKJV, and ESV, say "sea creatures."
    Strong's says:
    Which is obviously no help!

    Is it a mythological creature such as a Dragon or monster, or a real creature such as a serpent or whale?

    Could it possibly be a reference to a dinosaur and be used to further the creation argument over evolution?

    Thanks for your thoughts;
    Eaglewing
     
  2. Gayla

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    EaglewingIS4031 asked ..
    "Could it possibly be a reference to a dinosaur and be used to further the creation argument over evolution?"

    I think this is the right explanation.
     
  3. Charles Meadows

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    I think your first explanation is the better one. This is likely a reference to the primordial monsters of near eastern mythology. Job 41:1 reflects God's dominion over Leviathan, one of these "creatures". The creation account in Genesis makes it clear that these monsters had nothing to do with the creation or maintainence of the earth.
     
  4. DavidsAngel

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    The point in fact is the word "Dragons". Dragons could be explained as Lizard of any kind. And Dinosuars altho extint now, were God's creatures of the past. So are Panda's and Tigers that today are on the threat of extinction. Although the end of these animals today are our fault, those of the past are a mystery. It will be one of those things that will be revealed to us when we get to the hereafter.
     
  5. Old Timer

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    Why is a tree called a tree?
    It's a dragon because God called it a dragon. After all he created it.
     
  6. ScottEmerson

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    I thought Adam was the one who named the animals! (And did God always speak English?) Please tell me you were being facetious, OT.
     
  7. Old Timer

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    Not at all. Where did Adam get his vocabulary?
    He got it from God. Where did we get the KJV? From God. God says in the KJV "dragon." It's a dragon.
    By the way doc; Lucifers fall was long before Adam right?
    Who in the scripture is referred to as a dragon?
    If you answered Satan you are right.
    God said it was a dragon and until the mv's came along no one had a problem understanding that.
    So I conclude that the mv's are the author of confusion.
     
  8. Ransom

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    Is it a mythological creature such as a Dragon or monster, or a real creature such as a serpent or whale?

    Consider that in those days, sea travel was still primitive and the sea held a great terror for people. It was supposed that there were great sea monsters lurking beneath the surface that dragged men and ships to their doom. And indeed today in this age of deep-sea exploration and electronic detection equipment, we know that this is true, although perhaps not in the kind or quantity supposed by those ancient sailors.

    The point is not what kind of creatures they are, or even whether the kind of sea monster the poet has in mind objectively exists. What the psalmist is saying, is that even those terrible creatures are subject to God's rule, and God is worthy of their praise as well.

    Even in King James' day it was supposed that marvellous and terrible creatures inhabited the uncharted regions of the world. The map of the world that gave us the famous phrase "Here be dragons" predates the KJV by only 100 years.
     
  9. USN2Pulpit

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  10. Michael52

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    I think if you were deep-sea-fishing and you caught one of these dragons, you need to consider "catch and release" - very gently though! [​IMG]

    Seriously. The creatures and other phenomena that mystify and terrify us, are all God's "creatures" and they testify to His glory. There is less today that mystify us, but plenty that still terrify us!

    Consider that monster down in the Bahamas, heading for Florida. Lord help us!
     
  11. superdave

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    I think clearly as Ransom pointed out in his explanation of the nautical body of knowlege in the 1600's, that man is the author of confusion. The Scripture God has preserved for us is not confusing in the least.

    OT, Please stop blaspheming God's word on a forum dedicated to Baptist discussion. After all, The Authority of said scripture is a cornerstone to our doctrine. When you attack Gods very Word, you attack God. I would put up my lightning rod before making such a spurious and divisive claim about the very words of a holy God.
     
  12. Scott J

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    It is an unknown beast. Anything beyond that and the description that scripture gives is speculation.

    My speculation is that it is a reference to an extinct animal. Possibly, a dinosaur.
     
  13. EaglewingIS4031

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    Thanks to you all for all your help! I agree with gayla it makes good ammo for creationist! [​IMG]
    I did not want it to turn in to an Onlyism debate, I should have known better I've been posting here since the start of the summer.
     
  14. Scott J

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    Correct. He had direct personal interaction with God.
    Nope. You got the KJV from 17th century Anglican scholars. They never claimed inspiration and they weren't biblically qualified to receive direct inspiration.
    God didn't say it. The KJV translators said it.
    No. God said it was the Hebrew word posted in the initial post.
    Apparently you think God did since He never said dragon.
    Fortunately, your conclusions are of absolutely no authority.

    And, since millions are being saved and sanctified with MV's which are faithful translations of the texts God has providentially preserved, you have just blasphemed the Word of God and His ministry among the saints.
     
  15. EaglewingIS4031

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I didn't want a KJO debate, but that was a great reply!
     
  16. Deacon

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    Eaglewing asks in the original post:
    You do not need use a mythological explanation. Read the text for what it says; the whole creation is told to praise the LORD. The BDB Lexicon is similar to the Strong’s lexicon. Whatever “taninim” might be, it too will praise Him!

    Calling “Taninim” a dinosaur would be an example of eisogesis, (reading into the text), rather than more proper exegesis (reading from the text).

    To correctly interpret the Bible one needs to carefully recognize the presuppositions that are brought to the text. To call the dragon of Psalm 148 a dinosaur involves making assumptions that are beyond what the literal text says. Dragons (or even Behemoth and Leviathan) should not be translated as dinosaurs unless you recognize that you have arrived at the translation by holding to a young-earth model of creation.

    The translation of the word “taninim” to mean “dinosaur” would buttress a young-earth model of creation but one would only translate it that way because of the preconceived YEC belief. That’s a good example of circular reasoning.

    Rob
     
  17. robycop3

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    Old Timer:Why is a tree called a tree?

    because that's our English name for it.


    It's a dragon because God called it a dragon. After all he created it.

    Actually, that's what the human translators of a certain version speculated the Hebrew meant.

    BUT...there are dragon legends all over the world that originated with peoples who had no contact with each other in those days & hence couldn't have borrowed the legend from someone else. The ancient British, Chinese, & Aztecs all had dragon legends, to name a few, and far as we know now, those peoples had never met.
     
  18. Old Timer

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    quote;OT, Please stop blaspheming God's word on a forum dedicated to Baptist discussion. After all, The Authority of said scripture is a cornerstone to our doctrine. When you attack Gods very Word, you attack God. I would put up my lightning rod before making such a spurious and divisive claim about the very words of a holy God.

    Actually the person guilty of blasphemy is the person who questions God's word.
    It would appear that I am the only one on God's side in this thread.
    God said dragon so it's a dragon.
    You people really are too funny. I sit back and read your childish posts discussing "what's a dragon" and have to feel sorry for you.
    It reminds me of something said long before even I was born...yeah hath God said...
     
  19. EaglewingIS4031

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    Hey Deacon! I am a young earth creationist!
    I do apreciatte your post what ever it is it needs to praise God!
     
  20. Charles Meadows

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    Old Timer,

    The point of this thread is not KJV versus MVs. Feel free to start a thread but don't hijack other poster's threads.
     

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