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Drink

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Nov 13, 2011.

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  1. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    :confused:

    What is your point?
     
    #21 Jerome, Nov 14, 2011
  2. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    The point being is that Shorter does not prohibit it's staff from partaking of alcohol in public as the partial statement you posted suggests.

    "I will abstain from serving, from using, and from advocating the use of alcoholic beverages in public"

    Is very different from

    "I will not use alcoholic beverages in the presence of students, and I will abstain from serving, from using, and from advocating the use of alcoholic beverages in public (e.g. in locations that are open to use by the general public, including as some examples restaurants, concert venues,
    stadiums, and sports facilities) and in settings in which students are
    present or are likely to be present."
     
    #22 annsni, Nov 14, 2011
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Covenant

    In the back of the old "Baptist Hymnal" (the one that has "Just As I Am" on page 240) there is a church covenant that our SBC church would recite at least once a month.

    As a child, I can recall hearing preachers, deacons, teachers, and others making much of not allowing drink that was not prescribed by a doctor. Back then, occasionally doctors would prescribe a small amount of whiskey or wine be consumed each day for those who suffered from heart conditions (my father had five heart attacks before he was 70).

    So, I was curious as to the thinking of those who express that they are Scripturally free to consume intoxicants.
     
    #23 agedman, Nov 14, 2011
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Self medication - intoxicants

    I don't know if the folks on the forum are familiar that folks with attention deficit disorder have a high addictive rate because most have higher compulsive rates.

    That is why so many of them fall into intoxicant abuse, and once that hold is in their life, find it nearly impossible to escape.

    Far more needs to be done to educate parents on this condition and the helps they can find.
     
    #24 agedman, Nov 14, 2011
  5. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Annsni, thank you for typing out the full paragraph.

    I still don't get what point you are trying to make.

    You really think there are some public places that Shorter College professors are still allowed to drink?
     
    #25 Jerome, Nov 14, 2011
  6. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Actually since you started the conversation why don't you show us where it it absolutely prohibited.
     
    #26 preachinjesus, Nov 14, 2011
  7. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Well yeah, Jerome, there are plenty of public places a prof could drink where he wouldn't expect a student to be.

    For instance, if he drove thru my part of Alabama on Thursday night and stopped at the local Mexican restaurant and had a margarita (thurs are margarita nights) he wouldn't expect any Shorter students to be there. I'm sure there are plenty of places closer than AL where he could have a drink without the expectation that a student would see him.
     
    #27 menageriekeeper, Nov 14, 2011
  8. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    "All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial." - Paul

    "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." - Paul

    Jesus turned water into wine...

    etc...etc...etc...

    It's also been shown that some personality types are more prone to gluttony and obesity. Because of this should we put sweets on the scripturally unacceptable list for all Christians too?

    What about personalities prone to play with fire and become arsonists? Or the ones likely to be violent and misuse guns? Should fire and guns be put on the banned list just to be safe for everyone?

    See where this can lead? I say well allow scripture to speak for itself...we don't need to add items we think should be banned.
     
    #28 Skandelon, Nov 14, 2011
  9. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    That's not what the policy says.

    It doesn't say they are required to abstain just in in public places where students are likely to be present.

    It says they are to abstain in public AND in any setting in which students are likely to be present.
     
    #29 Jerome, Nov 14, 2011
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    It is permissable without drunkeness, but;
    1Cor 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

    So I do not drink.
     
    #30 freeatlast, Nov 14, 2011
  11. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    From "Alcohol Use In America" Resolution passed by the 2006 Southern Baptist Convention:

    Full text here for those who want to reinterpret/reimagine what the Convention meant.
     
    #31 Jerome, Nov 14, 2011
  12. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    And from the "Abstinence From the Use of Alcohol" Resolution passed by the 2009 Georgia Baptist Convention:

    Full text available here.

    BTW this is the state convention that controls Shorter College.
     
    #32 Jerome, Nov 14, 2011
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Longer post on my thinking about drink

    A person has to come to terms with what is the purpose and meaning of the description in Scriptures of what wine and strong drink really are.

    The Scripture puts them in the unique position of having human characteristics of mocking and raging. Both are not at all part of the character of Christ, but of the demonic world order. We are implored not to be deceived in this matter.

    Secondly, is that unless a person has "no hope" there is no other reason to give them "strong drink." Therefore, it is not appropriate to give it to yourself (if one is a believer) even in private - unless you have no hope in Christ.

    Thirdly, I have read that some consider that Christ both made and drank intoxicants. That just does not fit with his character and holiness. If one in fact takes the Scriptures literally in that "wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging" then Christ would not be the pure lamb of God having consumed something that was purposed to control him. Nor would he provide what He (being the very Word of God) considered deceitful.

    Some would say, but the legal level of being intoxicated ... It doesn't matter. Even if one micro cellular level was impacted by drink, The Christ would be blemished. He was offered drink twice on the cross. The first time it was water, but the second the water contained an intoxicant. He drank the first, the second he spit out. He could not allow the diminished capacity and enticement to evil at any level of the pure service He performed for His Father. How much of an example that presents to the believer in this day!

    Paul (possibly under Dr. Luke's instruction) told Timothy to take a bit of wine to settle the stomach. That is medicinal purpose.

    The last argument resides with those who would state that when a person took a long journey to temple, they were permitted to drink.

    There is medical reasoning that could be applied. However that verse also states that the person can do "whatever his soul desires." What if he desired something morally degrading? The point is quickly stated that other scriptures would hinder that thinking. My point, too, for the balance of Scriptures is against the consumption of a intoxicant with the noted exceptions.
     
    #33 agedman, Nov 14, 2011
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    What scripture are you referring to here?
     
    #34 Amy.G, Nov 14, 2011
  15. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    I'm hearing a bunch of philosophical and rational arguments (even some I agree with) but we still have not seen its prohibition in the scripture.
     
    #35 Skandelon, Nov 14, 2011
  16. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    I do not drink, and have been brought up to believe that it is wrong. Whether or not explicitly prohibited in the Bible, I personally believe it is not wise.

    However, the arguements you've stated that I've quoted don't hold water. You said
    If this were true, then if Christ ever got food poisoning, He couldn't have died for our sins, as his cells would have been altered by an outside source (just like alcohol does).

    Second, it could be He refused the drink because he wanted to bear the full weight of the cross, not because He thought it evil. You have made an assumption as to our Lord's intent.
     
    #36 Sapper Woody, Nov 14, 2011
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I'm going to guess it is Proverbs 31:6-7.
     
    #37 InTheLight, Nov 14, 2011
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    So is it your contention that the wine that Jesus drank was pure grape juice? No fermentation whatsoever?
     
    #38 InTheLight, Nov 14, 2011
  19. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    So, would this include the hope of a man to be intimate with his wife? I'm just saying cuz otherwise some of us don't have much hope. :laugh:
     
    #39 Skandelon, Nov 14, 2011
  20. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4 Member

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    Alcohol is ok, drunk not ok. Self-control is key and not partaking in the abuse that has gone on since it was discovered.

    The argument to abstain from alcohol must be seen with a number of things expecially when using references that refer to abstaining to prevent Christians from stumbling.

    Does this apply to a big home? People will idol you
    A nice car? people may idol you
    What about eating to much in general?
    What about a massive collection of Bibles
    I love amy's comment, what about addiction to Baptist board?
    What about careers? that is a huge idol
    What about clothes? Do we only wear white T shirts (which I love)
    What about any of these and millions more that can cause modern Americans to stumble and fall into a trap?

    Alcohol is a big deal today among many kids, but so is materialism and most of us love our things so in my mind that is as dangerous to their souls as alcohol.

    just some thoughts
     
    #40 zrs6v4, Nov 14, 2011
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