Drinking Alcohol Moderately

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by PrivateWoman, Sep 7, 2010.

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Do You Believe That It Is Okay For Christians To Drink Alcohol in Moderation?

  1. Yes

    69.2%
  2. Not Sure/Undecided

    3.8%
  3. Definitely Not

    26.9%
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  1. PrivateWoman

    PrivateWoman
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    I have been very heartbroken recently because I have found out that many young Christians in their 20s and 30s are giving to drink after being taught by their parents to never drink alcohol. Some of them used to be very strong in their stands on alcohol, but changed after being influenced by other friends.

    My parents taught my sister and me very strongly that drinking is wrong. I actually watched my paternal grandfather drinking until I was about 10 years old. He became a Christian and quit drinking 1 year before he died of cancer. My dad said that he drank some, but that was before he became a Christian. One of my cousins was killed in a car accident because he was drunk. I am sure that he first started out drinking a little and then increased how much he drank. It was so heartbreaking.

    The wine in biblical time was not the same as today. I am sure that Jesus would not approve the alcoholic beverages that we have today at all. David Wilkerson, the pastor of Time Squares Church wrote a wonderful article about Christians drinking and I wanted you both to read it. You can find the article at http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/undated/sipsaint.html. I am not sure if you are familiar with him. There’s another great article on good reasons why Christians should not drink at http://logosresourcepages.org/Believers/drinking.htm.

    There are young people at conservative churches drinking. I was very heartbroken last year when I saw where a youth pastor at a church that is a member of a local Baptist association had some pictures of himself drinking beer on Facebook. There was one picture of many beer cans lining up on the table. It was obvious he was proud of it. He is in his 20s. It really made me upset because I am sure that some teenagers he may minister to may have seen that. What are they going to think? Because he drinks, I am sure those teenagers think it’s okay. He is not being a good example at all. I thought he was a wonderful Christian. He done some mission work and is very nice. I am not sure what happened to him. But I assume he has some Christian friends who believe there’s nothing wrong with drinking and he fell. His dad was a former chaplain and drinks.

    I often have to stand around men who are buying beer when I pay for gas. I cannot help, but wonder if they are Christians or not. Christians are supposed to be apart from the world. I don’t see anything positive about alcohol at all. I don’t see anything wrong with people taking medicine that has alcohol in them though. I’ve been at some chamber of commerce meetings where alcohol was served. It made me sad to see some children around and how they might become alcoholics one day.

    There are some Christians who do mess up. In fact, a former pastor of singles & worship shared with the singles group about how he made a mistake by drinking some in college as a Christian and he deeply regretted it. I am not talking about those Christians who have messed up and then repented.
     
  2. annsni

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    First, welcome to Baptist Board. What a first post here! Why not go to the intro section to introduce yourself so we can get to know you??

    Secondly, do a search on alcohol and you'll know that this has been discussed quite a bit with a lot of good people on both sides of the coin.

    The Bible does not say that drinking alcohol (whether or not it was the same as in Bible times) is a sin. God gave us alcohol to gladden our hearts and yet we're told to be very cautious in it's use.

    Additionally, there is the stumbling factor in there. I think in Bible times, alcohol was much more widely used than it is today and yes, even "strong drink" is mentioned in Scripture and alcohol HAD to have enough alcohol to cause drunkenness so for those who say that wine had less alcohol than it does today doesn't really cut it for me.

    Personally, we do not drink. We used to drink and I still cook with alcohol (and realize that it's a fallacy that alcohol is cooked off when heated because it's not - the majority is maintained in most cooking). But when we started working with the college ministry, we decided that the students struggle enough with alcohol use without us drinking too. Now my husband no longer works with the college ministry but we're starting a new church and I know there will be those with alcohol issues and it's really not a great stretch for us to give up our liberty for their sake.

    But bottom line, our stand for full abstinence is cultural, not a Biblical mandate and to say it is, is an extreme error.
     
  3. PrivateWoman

    PrivateWoman
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    I forgot to mention more information about my former pastor of singles & worship. He said he deeply regretted drinking beer with those college guys and he wished that he had not drank and instead took time to witness to them.

    I personally think drinking alcohol even in moderation can really ruin your witness. My sister brought up a good point. She said that unsaved people may see Christians drinking and wonder why they should become a Christian since they are doing exactly the same thing.

    I have not really given much thought to cooking foods in alcohol to be honest.

    I do know that I'm planning on never drinking alcohol if possible. However, if I was stuck and lost in the woods for days and the only available clean drink available was alcoholic beverage, I would definitely drink it. I would also drink an alcoholic beverage if the creek or river in the woods looked dirty. But I am 99 percent sure that I will never be in that kind of situation.

    I hate alcohol. It has done so many horrible things. I know many people would still be alive today if it was not for alcohol.

    We are very blessed that there are so many wonderful non-alcoholic beverages to choose from today. I really see no point in drinking alcohol at all.
     
  4. Fred's Wife

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    Amen! :thumbs:
     
  5. Jim1999

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    The world doesn't look to see how much alcohol Christians are drinking, but they see them drinking alcoholic beverages. Look out when you try to witness!

    If you are lost in the woods, that alcohol is the worst liquid you can drink. That muddy river is much better...just learn how to scoop it. Alcohol will dehydrate you faster than anything.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. annsni

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    I have never once met one unbeliever who used this argument. Why not say "I see many Christians eating so why should I become a Christian if they are doing the exact same thing?" or "I see Bob and Ann going away on the sailboat and having a great time so why should I become a Christian since I can do the same exact thing?" It's honestly not an argument against alcohol consumption at all. As a matter of fact, I've more heard "Oh wait! You mean I don't have to give up my weekend beer if I become a Christian? I thought I did!" - THAT is putting an unbiblical burden on the Gospel, don't you think? Why do people think that being a Christian equals: no more alcohol, no more pants on women, no more laughter, no more music, no more shorts, no more hanging out with the unsaved....and a whole bunch more "no more's".

    Instead, what if unbelievers saw a believer responsibly drinking?? They see a man or woman have one alcoholic drink in a particular setting (a glass of wine with dinner, a glass of champagne at a wedding, a beer at a BBQ) but they do not continue to get drunk and instead responsibly use their freedom to drink? Honestly, to the world (aside from alcoholics - that's a different ballgame), that just might take a stumbling block AWAY rather than place one there.

    But I do agree that we need to be extremely cautious about our consumption. Better to not eat meat offered to idols (even though it is not forbidden to us and we are free to consume) than to possibly cause a weaker brother or sister to stumble.
     
  7. PrivateWoman

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    I personally think that there is a good chance that my paternal grandfather would not have accepted Christ as His savior if a Christian who drank witnessed to him. He drank for many years. He gave up drinking alcohol completely when he became a Christian. He was so touched when my little sister became a Christian and I think that's what led him to become a Christian.

    Alcohol has done so many terrible things to people. I certainly don't want to have anything to do with it. I don't see anything wrong with alcohol in medications of course. But there is honestly no reason for people to drink alcohol when there are so many wonderful non-alcoholic beverages.

    Christians can still have fun. But alcohol should not be a part of their lives anymore. You can still have a wonderful time at weddings, dinner, and BBQ without alcohol. What about sodas, juices, grape juices, tea, and water? There is no reason why you cannot have fun drinking non-alcoholic beverages.

    Alcohol is a very bad thing and I think with all of the non-alcoholic beverages we have today that we should not drink alcohol at all. There is nothing wrong with women wearing pants and shorts as long as they are modest. I love to wear pants and shorts, but I work to make sure they are modest. The truth is some skirts and dresses are immodest. Christians can still laugh. But we should work to be apart from the world and give up things that could lead others to get in deep trouble.

    Satan has used alcohol to hurt a lot of people. I feel that some of the alcohol related tragedies have been caused by some Christians who drank moderately. One of my mom's good friends drinks moderately and one of her daughters ended up drinking a lot and got arrested for DUI. She had an accident and fortunately no one was hurt. Children often drink in excess when they see their parents drinking moderately.
     
  8. annsni

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    I will disagree that there are "good" non-alcoholic drinks but for someone who wants to "pretend", that is OK although if someone sees you with a wine glass with alcohol, don't you think that they will see it as you drinking a glass of wine? Do you think they will come ask you about it or test it's alcohol content? Besides, you DO know that "non-alcoholic" beverages actually do contain some alcohol but just low enough to be declared "non-alcoholic"?

    If a believer is drinking to "have fun", then I think there is a problem. I used to drink for one reason and one reason alone: I liked the taste. When I had a nice dinner, I loved the taste of a glass of wine. I didn't have it because I wanted to have fun but because I found the combination pleasant and appealing. It's the same thing as having a cup of milk with some chocolate chip cookies - it just goes together.

    As for the argument that a moderately drinking parent will cause a child to drink excessively, you do know that MANY MANY parents who abstain have children who drink excessively as well, don't you? I do believe that is for one reason and one reason only: a wrong attention and belief about alcohol and not teaching our children rightly. Now, my children are not of legal drinking age but my oldest will be in March of 2011. She asked me if she could try a glass of wine when she turns 21 and I told her this: If you think it is prudent, if you think it is wise in the company of those who you are with and if you do not drive, you may have a glass of wine. However, if it could be a stumbling block to someone including yourself, it is OK to not drink. So my children have not had any alcohol before the legal drinking age and they have seen us drink in the past. But we've taught them the Biblical guidelines, some of the wisdom behind what the Bible says and that they are free to make the decision themselves.

    But the teens that I have seen from my ministry with youth who end up as alcoholics? They all came from homes that forbid alcohol. Every one of them.
     
  9. Steadfast Fred

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    Because they read the command for abstinence in Proverbs 23 and want to conform to the instructions of God
    Probably personal conviction
    I've never known a Christian who doesn't laugh, so I am sure you threw that one out sarcastically
    I only know of one religion that forbids music in their Church, so, unless that one has joined that denomination, I don't see how you can compare the drinking of alcohol to music in a Christians life
    Personal conviction
    Biblical mandate: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [2Co 6:14 KJV]
    God has many thou shalt not's in His Word.
     
  10. annsni

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    I do not see a command for abstinence nor do the vast majority of scholars. I see a caution against drunkenness. You DO read the rest of Scripture, don't you? Where in Proverbs 31 we're told to give people wine? Where God says to take the tithe, sell it, travel to the temple then buy wine and strong drink and enjoy it? Or Isaiah 55 where God says to buy wine and milk? How about Timothy needing a little wine to clear his stomach ailment?

    But why say it's a rule for others as well?

    Only partially. I know of a few believers who think if you are laughing, you are sinning.

    I've heard it said that it's a sin. So is it?

    Yet once again, why make it law? I've seen it before.

    So how do you witness to unbelievers if you never associate with them? Note that it says "yoked together" - not being around them. Read through the Scriptures and show me one example of someone not associating with unbelievers. Yet I've heard of Christians who do just this same thing. Only Christian owned stores. Only Christian school or homeschool. They have not one chance to spread the Gospel because they are too inbred.
     
  11. Steadfast Fred

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    I do read the entirety of Scripture, yes. Proverbs 31? Give wine to him that is ready to perish. I'm not ready to perish, are you? Deuteronomy 14? I see wine and strong drink, but I don't see the word alcohol. Isaiah 55? Again, I don't see alcohol. As a matter of fact, just 10 more chapters in Isaiah and we see that wine is in the grape while it is still on the cluster. 1 Timothy 5? Since alcohol is not good for peptic ulcers, I highly doubt Paul prescribed that Timothy drink fermented beverage.



    I have never heard my wife condemned for wearing her pants. I do know that Pentecostal Churches are strict in this area, but they are not so extreme that they go knocking on people's doors telling them they are going to hell for wearing pants. That mandate is manmade and only within certain denominations.



    It would depend on what was being laughed at. We are not supposed to love the things of the world, so if one is laughing at filthy jokes and lasciviousness I myself might have a problem with it. But it is not a sin to laugh at some things.

    Since music is played in the Bible, how can godly music be sin? Worldly music could be considered sin though. After all he that loves the world is an enemy of God according the the Bible.



    As to shorts, again one would have question the intentions and the fitting. If one is putting shorts on so that they can impress another and cause another to lust after them, then I would say it is sin for it is done with sinful motives. I have a pair of shorts that I occasionally wear in the house, but I would never wear them outside. I don't want strangers staring at my legs.



    Be not unequally with unbelievers is not the same as witnessing. I can go and knock on a drunkards door or any other door and share Christ on the porch... but I don't have to be yoked together with them. God does not want us yoked with unbelievers. Would you yoke a lamb with a lion? Of course not! Why not? Because they have two different natures. They would work against each other.

    This was what Paul was saying, two cannot walk together except they be agreed.

    Here's another verse for you.

    But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. (1Co 5:11 KJV)

    When one keeps company (yoked together) with those who are ungodly, one is disobeying the Word of God.
     
  12. Steadfast Fred

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    I won't continue to argue with you. I have given my stance and what I believe God would have His people do.
     
  13. Fred's Wife

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    IMO, trying to witness with a can of beer or glass of wine in your hand would compromise your sharing Christ. On a personal note, it is offensive to me to see "professing" Christians drinking beverage alcohol...even if they say it is only "in moderation". I also believe "moderation" is a lie from the pit of hell. When a person takes the first drink to their lips, they do not know what the end will be. That person is no longer in control; the liquor is. That's the deception (Proverbs 20:1).
    I agree. What is the reason why people desire to drink beverage alcohol? How can the reason be the taste....that stuff tastes awful, and the smell is nauseating, IMO. The only reason for imbibing would be for the "buzz" or the "promise" of "easing pain".
    Agreed! The world drinks beverage alcohol...should the Christian be "conformed to this world" and participate? Or should the the Christian:

    Romans 12:1 (KJV) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    Romans 12:2 (KJV) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
    I believe the Bible teaches total abstinence....however, the Bible doesn't specifically state that women are not to wear pants or shorts. All the Bible says about the apparel of women (and men too) is that their apparel should be modest. There are churches who will not allow women in the door if they come to church in pants...IMO, this is legalism. If a woman is convicted in her own heart that she should wear only skirts and dresses, then that is what she should do. Wearing skirts and dresses do not make a woman "more spiritual" than those who wear pants.
    I know this is so true. I know people who have died alcohol related deaths because some well meaning "professing" Christians told them that it's okay to drink moderately as long as you don't get drunk. No such thing as drinking in moderation.
     
  14. annsni

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    Most certainly we are. Who knows when our last day is but we all know one thing. We all meet the same end: perish.


    Wine and strong drink are alcohol. Yes, the word for wine CAN mean juice but strong drink means nothing else other than an alcoholic beverage.

    Sorry if you don't have good eyesight.



    It's so interesting that the juice can then make you drunk, isn't it? So is that a prohibition against grape juice as well? I think many churches are sinning then when they serve communion.

    Oh - You have inside knowledge that he had peptic ulcers? How about red wine can PREVENT ulcers? It's been found that compounds in red wine appear to inhibit H. pylori growth, which is the suspected cause of ulcers.


    Oh - then you haven't been out there enough. I've been told that I am not a believer in Jesus Christ because I wear pants. Seriously. Numerous times.



    However, some believe it is sinful to enjoy things enough to laugh. Seriously.

    However, what Biblically constitutes worldly music? Why does enjoying worldly music (including classical) mean that we're an enemy of God?


    And that is your choice but I had someone see me in a photograph wearing bermuda shorts (and being 5'3", bermuda shorts come to mid-knee) and they questioned my salvation. Shorts is a personal choice - not a Bible law.



    So, when we were on vacation, and we met with the unsaved who were also boating, and we sat with them, talked with them, shared some snacks with them, had our children put on a play together and we ate dinner with them, that is sinful? Then Jesus sinned.
     
  15. annsni

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    I drank for over 25 years (in very moderation). I was never controlled by alcohol and was always fully in control.

    That is your opinion but it is not fact. I enjoy the taste of many alcohols just as I enjoy a nice glass of iced tea (fresh brewed with no sugar) or a Coke or a seltzer with lime. To say that people only drink for the buzz, promise or easing of pain is slander.

    The world also drives cars, eats meat, gets married, has children, uses sound systems, reads books (heck, some even read the Bible), and worse yet - uses the internet. So we should stop all of that. The world breathes as well and we breathe in the breath of sinners. We'd definitely need to stop that!

    Then you are mistaken. It happens.

    This is from a church just down the block from where we're planting a new church. Tell me what SHE believes the Bible says.

    http://www.tbaptist.com/aab/lizgraf.htm

    And we can say the same thing with alcohol.

    There's no such thing as eating in moderation. I know so many who have died from gluttony related deaths because some Christian church encouraged the gluttony through pot luck suppers, donuts with coffee and spaghetti dinners.

    You are in grave error sister.
     
  16. Jim1999

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    People who want to consume alcohol will find the excuses to do so, and it is futile to tell them otherwise..........Just ask the public what they think!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Steadfast Fred

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    Yes, that is obvious. As a pastor, I have heard many excuses given by people as to why they can put something toxic into their bloodstream

    They may has well be shooting heroin or smoking crack. Each is just as damaging to the temple of God as the toxic drink called alcohol.
     
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

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    You have got to be kidding me?!? If you cant control yourself then just dont do it but if you want a snort now & again, its a free country. Next you will be telling me is you dont like to dance. How Bizarre.
     
  19. annsni

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    Hope you don't drink alcohol, eat anything processed or even drink most commercial milk. ;)
     
  20. Steadfast Fred

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    It's a free country...I've heard that excuse too.
     
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