Drinking of alcohol and especially wine

Can I nominate you for BEST POST OF THE YR!... Now that was funny!!!!!:applause::laugh::smilewinkgrin:

 

I'll respectfully suggest you're reading into the text too much. Here are my reasons (I'll be hashing out the Greek text above):
1. In vs. 2 the term is probably best translated "self-controlled" or "prudent." The idea, used by Paul, is not referring to alcohol but how one conducts his mental state. Notice how Paul also uses the term in Titus 1:8; 2:2, 5. Different translations turn out the word differently, but it isn't about alcohol.
2. Thus the key terms is the difference between 3:3 and 3:8 and thus the difference between the Greek terms: μη παροινον and μη οινω πολλω προσεχοντας.
a. The term in 3:3 is best translated "not a drunkard" and most translations reflect that sentiment, that an overseer (while not prohibiting alcohol) should not be a dunk or practicing alcoholic. There is no prohibition of alcohol here (or anywhere) in the lists of qualifications for leaders. The term here is a negative followed by a noun which is used exclusively in the Pastoral Epistles and only in Titus 1:7.
b. The root term in 3:8 is a verb (its actually in participle form above) that, when standing by itself, holds the idea of paying particular attention or being on guard. Now when the term occurs in the structure above (μη οινω πολλω προσεχοντας) there is an idiomatic form that is (almost) literally: "not of wine much holding your attention" (that is a simplified literal term.) You'll actually notice the root term is replicated in 24 verses in the New Testament including: Matthew 6:1; 7:15; 10:17; Luke 20:46; 21:34; Acts 5:35; 8:6, 10, 11; Hebrews 2:1; 7:13 and several other places. Check those places and you'll see the root verb used in a variety of contexts.

Now, the difference is one of degrees. The idea is that we are to in control of our person, having a good reputation, and not being drunk. There is, imho, no prohibition to drink for "overseers" or what we might consider Pastors. Just my take.

Thanks!

 

The Scriptures aren't clear on this. There is only 1 word for wine in the New Testament. It is sort of a cover all too.

The only two other words that exist are:
* οξους which is best understood "sour wine"
* γλευκους which is used only once, in Acts 2:38, which is "sweet wine"

Paul uses the standard word for wine (οινω) when he talks about using it to get drunk.

I usually approach it that "wine" is a cover all for alcoholic consumption. Some have said it is weaker than we have...but we can't affirm that totally. There is too much ambiguity in the text.

 

"Montezuma's Revenge!"

(Back then however, I believe it was usually known as "Caesar's Revenge.")



Ed

 

"Well, conshidering it has been a while shince we've (Hic!) had a good dish- dish- dish-cuss - dsi... OK! - booze-fight! on the Babtish Board 'bout alky-holl. Y'all go on right ahead!.




Fer' sume reashon, I sheem to be a litlel two unshteady on muh feet tuday - to dance in thish onwe. So I'm just gonna' watch from the sidelinzes and on.. (Hic!) offer many con - con - uh- contruh - con - conter - 'er very much stuff to this dish - ...

... cus- dish -

di ... :sleep:

Ed

 

I'll drink to that.



Its a joke folks, don't get your pot luck belly in a knot.

 

Sumo wrestlers eat once a day. The less you eat, the more your body holds on to calories. Genetics also play a role in a person's weight. My mom who has struggled with weight her whole life once ate nothing but salads for an entire week...and gained a couple pounds.

 

Well, Scripture refers to the "well aged" wine as the best there is (Isaiah 25:6) and was the wine Jesus made (John 2). Wine will ferment until it reaches the alcohol content of between 12 and 17%...so we know the wine Jesus made, and the wine the Lord will serve us had at least this much in it.

Since alcohol is formed as a result of natural processes, I see nothing wrong with any alcohol in moderation that doesn't lead to drunkeness.

 

Leave the U.S. and you will see many more.

 

That is very true. I know several people who struggle to keep weight off and eat less than most. There are others I know, and older, that can eat pizza, McDonalds, etc, and never gain a pound.

 

I have always found it interesting when people want to discuss the alcohol issue.

Is it because they want to justify their own drinking?

Is it because they feel a little guilty and look for scripture to ease that guilt?

Is it because they see others that never drink and it makes them feel their own walk is not where it should be?

Or, is drinking alcohol the last thing that they are still holdong on to?

One thing is for sure. Scripture teaches that we are never to do anything, with the liberty we have in Christ, that will cause another person to stumble.

And since there are some people, whether they be children, friends, coworkers, relatives or simply aquaintances who may stumble because they see alcohol being consumed, people who drink must drink alone.

If they truly feel drinking is perfectly fine, they should drink when there is no other person who will see them. You never know what influence that you have on people, but one thing is certain, you have one.

 

Why do you want to drink alcohol? Dr Pepper wasn't Old Testement? Tea not strong enough? I see to many bad things on the news related to alcohol compared to someone drinking OTHER beverages and having an accident,killing each other,bar fights,ect. Its a drug in my book and should be avoided"separation". Ok now you can throw the tomatoes!:tongue3:

 

Wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging: whoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

I'd like to remain wise unto the deceitfulness of alcohol.

Alcohol used in medicines is to allow the bloodstream to increase in flow and cause the other ingredients to be accepted by the body quicker.

"Wine is fine but liquor is quicker" Ancient drunkards proverb; they adopted it after first indulging socially at the first, then as all drunkards do, they got drunker.

I have yet to meet a man who became a drunk that never drank.:thumbs:

 

Can a Christian be a social drinker? Adrian Rogers http://www.lwf.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5287&news_iv_ctrl=1304

 

Really?
I am not accusing, just surmising and asking. So you think that people who start a discussion about how there is nothing wrong with drinking and then challenge those who think there is, is because they are trying to clear up false teaching?

BTW Ann, do you think people should drink around people who could be affected negatively by alcohol? Since we never can truly know who would be affected by the example set in drinking alcohol, we run the risk of putting a stumbling block in their way, do we not?

 

Ann, that's a stretch, we are talking about drinking alcohol.

 

Remember--when discussing alcohol among Baptists, consistency and logic are not allowed.