Drinking of alcohol and especially wine

Interesting and good point. It reminded me that we eat pork and that was not on the approved list in the OT.

 

But that isn't the point of the KJV translators. The text in the TR is the same as the UBS4 which I drew from.

You can't just dismiss my argument with this above, particularly if you are a "scholar." The KJV doesn't mean abstinence. It means moderation.

Well this line doesn't fly around here. The TR was created by Erasmus. Its an okay critical text. But since my Greek above lines up with the Textus Receptus' Greek, howsabout you interact with where I'm coming from.

How then, do you reconcile (since the texts are the same) the various uses of different terminology in the NT? How do you deal with my points, explicitly above, in how Paul configures the standard in his Greek presentation.

Let us not forget the original documents were not done in English, both (for the NT) Greek. So how do you think we should better understand the Greek?

For this one, you're going to have to show cause. I have dealt explicitly with the original language above and not some English translation of that language. Just saying the KJV is superior doesn't buy much credibility. Particularly for a Scholar. Where is your cause for this statement as it relates to the above texts?

Okay, well I don't drink alcohol. I have never consumed alcoholic beverages. I don't care if a Christian does but I have never (because of my particular calling) consumed them. Does my interpretation then matter?

Your reply, while it is appreciated, is severly lacking in both a robust engagement with the text and an honest effort to discuss the points I raised above. So I ask:

Given my reply and the interaction with the text (notice I didn't use any "modern" translations but strictly dealt with the Greek) how can you validate a mandated abstinence for pastors only?

blessings on your journey:thumbsup:

 

lol...well this whole conversation has taken a predictable turn.

It would be great to see if anyone can show Scriptural cause why Christians must completely abstain from alcohol.

I see lots of talking past each other, boilerplate rhetoric, and illusions to "spiritual" principles...but no interaction with the text of the Scriptures. But that is what I expect.

 

It is legalistic to set rules regarding a subject there is obviously no absolute grounds to make a decision on. We should be following the principles of scripture. Rules are for the immature. Principles are for the mature

So whether you eat or drink do it all for the glory of God

Everything is lawful but not everyting is beneficial

Everything is lawful but I will not be mastered by anything.


Hey what about the stumbling block principle...should I not drink because it offends my weaker brother?

 

Nope, but it would be a good idea not to drink in his or her presence.

If you were to invite a friend, relative or anyone over for dinner that is a recovering alcoholic or dealing with a drinking problem then it would not be a good idea to break open a bottle of wine. Or if that person is a non-drinker that is offended by it. Just avoid the situation.

In Romans, Paul was addressing a conflict between the Jew and Gentile Christians, namely about drinking wine whenever. And also eating whatever because the Jewish Christians still lived by the dietary restrictions of the Law at this time, but that is another discussion. For the Jews there were days you could drink and days you couldn't. The Gentiles had no reserves about drinking whenever. Paul asked the Gentiles church members in Rome to respect the wishes of their "brother" and to abstain from drinking on these days and eating foods in front of them that were offensive.

And then used it as a moral lesson about doing things that would offend others especially when you know good and well that it offends them and showing respect for the wishes of your fellow Christians.

:thumbs: Hope that answers your question and didn't confuse you :laugh:

 

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1 Why drink strong drinks compared with other beverages available today?

 

Re: This Whine Thread

Not exactly.

Actually it was a sideways reference to this thread in the Baptist Theology and Bible Study forum.

http://www.baptistboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12

I did mistakenly post it in the wrong forum (hence the 'red face' smilie), while the remark about 'helping the thread along' was simply my comment on a subject that gives this general appearance.



But I'm still glad to see that you found something amusing in this "Whine Thread" just the same.


Ed

 

I never mocked anyone or became enraged by drinking a beer or glass of wine. In context this verse is clearly dealing with drunkeness and NOT drinking.

 

I agree and I have asked several people here to give the positives to drinking alcohol and have seen none, except that ribs taste better with a glass of ale. The ribs probably need some help if ale makes them taste better.

 

:BangHead:

 

Share with us the positive of eating a bag of Lay's Potato Chips? What is the positive of eating meat that is fried as opposed to BBQ'ed. Your argument is lame.

 

Who compared it to gluttony? I can use whatever argument that I choose to use and when I do not respond to a question it is becuae I do not think that the question deserves a response.

I have that freedom, as do you. Enough for this subject, carry on with the others here.

 

We can pull anything out of scripture that attempts to prove our beliefs. I suppose that you believe money is the answer to everything based on this verse?
Ecc 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

 

Why are you so hung up on verifying that drinking alcohol is justified in scripture?