Drinking Question......

That would take A LOT of alcohol to do. Consumption to that extreme is obviously sinful. The act of consumption itself is not scripturally forbidden. If the litmus test is "it's mind altering", then green tea would also be forbidden (caffiene), as would certain foods such as turkey (tryptophan), warm milk (sleep-inducing enzymes), and oranges (sugar).

 

Although I do not drink at all, what you have said is a fallacious argument. MANY things, if taken in too great a quantity, become a "drug." (My son, for example, if he eats too much sugar too fast, becomes uncontrollable: he runs around, without thinking, and would run out into traffic without a second glance. This does not make it o.k. for me to force a "no cookie" rule on you)

Alcohol in moderation is not in any way "mind altering", and it is SPECIFICALLY permitted in scripture. Drugs, such as marijuana, are SPECIFICALLY forbidden. So it really does not matter how you or I want to speculate on what is, and isn't a drug; scripturally speaking, drugs and alcohol are on a different page: one is allowed, the other is not.

 

During Prohibition, alcohol WAS illegal, so was drinking alcohol during Prohibition a sin?

Scripture please?

 

Generally, yes.

 

If drinking alcohol to get drunk is a sin, what about people who drink 2-3 drinks just to relax, and relieve the anxiety they have? So many different scenarios.

 

Rev 9:21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

G5331
φαρμακεία
pharmakeia
Thayer Definition:
1) the use or the administering of drugs


The fact that you have to repent of your "drug use" shows pretty well that it is forbidden.

Also, please note that God considers this different than getting drunk on alcohol..

Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

There's a difrerence between consuming something to relax, and consuming something to get drunk/high/stoned. I'm not saying it's adviseable, but it's not necessarily a sin.

 

It wasn't permitted at times nor to all people.
Priests were forbidden to even have any before or during their ministering/service and if they did God would kill them. Granted that after their ministering was up they could partake, just not before they showed up for ministy or during. The nazarite was forbidden to even touch the very grapes, ripes or dried at all, till his vow to God was fulfilled. And Proverbs states it is not for Kings or princes to to drink wine or strong drink.

So it seems that if one is under a vow, in the service/ministry toward God and/or His people, or watching over God's people, they should cease from such drink so as to not even potentially pervert the things of God.

That is not a declaration but an interesting observation of and from those who were not to drink or not to drink at certain times.

It is intersting that Timothy (a disciple of Paul) chose not to drink at all, and to the extent that Paul tried to encourage him to take a 'little bit' for his stomach promblems. So the issue regarding christian should or should not drink is as old as the early church. Even Paul had to deal with other christians, and not just Timothy, about drinking or not. His answer was that if drinking or eating was a stumbling block or considered a sin to another brother he was in contact with, then he would cease to continue doing that thing till the world ends for their benifit.

 

In the United States...absolutely.

 

All Christians are sinners saved by grace. If one who has been drinking came to my house he is most likely someone in need of help. It does nothing to avoid that person and address their real need.

 

As far as I can tell we agree on this. Nothing added or taken away just said different.:thumbs:

 

In response to the opening post, I offer the following.

When I was about 10 years old we went to my Grandmother's house on Christmas Eve afternoon. While we were there one of my batchelor uncles who lived there came home and he was drunk. After a while he decided he needed to go and get more liquor. My father and two of my Mother's brothers detained my drunk uncle and he pulled his pocketknife on them. This was so shocking because my uncle had never hurt anyone or even threatened anyone while he was drinking before.

They kept talking to him and finally got him to agree to go home with my family for Christmas if my dad would stop by the bootlegger's house and get a pint of moonshine to get him through the night.

We did and to make a long story short he was present at our house the next day for our Family Christmas meal.

I had the privilege of seeing that same uncle baptized about five years later and he never drank again.

Who knows what would have happened if my Father had not allowed my drunk uncle to sleep in our house and even drink in our house that Christmas eve?

I say there's no hard and fast answer to the question.

 

I do not drink. You can probably justify drinking in moderation with Scripture. I really don't care. I do not "buy" all the excuses. Alcohol ruins lives. Why would anyone want anything to do with it? Alcohol "dims" your judgment after only ONE drink. Scientific fact. Drinking in "moderation" sounds ridiculous to me. After about 2 drinks you're not in any mindset to realize you've had enough. It's called "playing with fire" in my book.


I'll wait for the :tonofbricks: that I know is coming.

 

No "probably" about it. You can absolutely and solidly justify the consumption of alcohol with scripture. The drinking of alcohol is not scripturally required, but it is clearly scripturally permitted. Any person who claims alcohol consumption to be scripturally wrong is ignorant of scripture.

 

What are your thoughts on the rest of what I posted?

 

• You said you do not "buy" all the excuses. No excuse is necessary. Alcohol consumption is scripturally permitted. Period. No Christians needs an excuse to do so.
• You said alcohol ruins lives. That's not true. Abuse of alcohol ruins lives.
• You said alcohol "dims" your judgment after only ONE drink. Is "dimming" of judgement in and of itself an adminition in scripture? If so, then you should refrain from consumption of sugar, coffee, warm milk, and turkey, since they all "dim" a person's judgement. Scripture expressly admonishes drunkenness. One can consume alcohol without getting drunk. That's a fact.
• You said drinking in "moderation" sounds ridiculous to me. Whether it sounds ridiculous to you is not a limtmus test for whether it's scripturally permissible or not.
• You said after about 2 drinks you're not in any mindset to realize you've had enough. If that's so, then don't have 2 drinks.
• You said it's called "playing with fire" in my book. Again, I note the consumption of sugar, coffee, warm milk, and turkey. By your standard, they're all playing with fire. Eating in general is also playing with fire, as it leads to gluttony, sloth, and heart disease. So let's not eat.

 

Thanks! We'll agree to disagree I hope! I'll end my posts on this topic with something Jim1999 posted earlier:

 

It's not a matter of disagreement. Scripture permits the consumption of it. Anyone who says it's not scripturally permitted is completely ignorant of scripture on the topic.

 

Well, call it personal conviction then! :thumbs:

 

If it's your personal conviction to not drink, then I support it 100%, and more importantly, scripture supports it 100%.