Featured Drinking

I know what you said, and what you say is blasphemous. Jesus did use real wine and not grape juice.

Oinos only has one meaning and it is wine.
Why did you not give the link to the Greek site that says oinos means unfermented wine?

 

The Frieberg Greek Lexicon defines 'oinos':

Usually fermented does not mean always fermented. Frieberg reveals that oinos was sometimes non fermented.

 

DHK tried to be deceptive by debating me in another thread (Fermented and Unfermented Wine thread) and claimed I said something I did not say during that debate. Then when I told him to quote where I said it, he went searching in another thread. He took something that I said that was about scriptures in the Complete Jewish Bible.

The Complete Jewish Bible says:

Matthew 26:27
Also he took a cup of wine, made the b’rakhah, and gave it to them, saying, “All of you, drink from it!

Matthew 26:29
I tell you, I will not drink this ‘fruit of the vine’ again until the day I drink new wine with you in my Father’s Kingdom.”

DHK says, “The use of alcoholic wine would have been sinful because of what the Bible teaches about wine and what it represents. Christ would not have used a sinful representation to symbolize the purity of his blood. We use his own argument against him. It was grape juice. The corrupted wine described as corrupted in Proverbs 23 would never be used to symbolize the precious blood of Christ.”

I wonder what the Readers and translators of the Complete Jewish Bible think about what DHK believes. Maybe DHK should teach and correct them and show them the correct meaning of Matthew 26:27, and 29.

 

You believe wine was used in the Lord's Supper and you believe it is fermented. We can prove that. To deny that is to be hypocritical.

You are wrong. I quoted from the same thread just a few posts earlier.

And do you think he would use a symbol that represents false doctrine, sin, malice and wickedness to represent his blood. Shame on you!

This works against you. What is described in Prov.23 is the fermentation process. Christ would never use fermented wine to symbolize his precious blood. Read on what it says about the consumption of such wine. What strange things do people see?

I have the correct meaning. Do you?
They laid false accusations against Christ during his lifetime and at his death. Was Christ a drunkard? Is that what you believe? You believe Christ was a sinner? You believe the false accusations laid against Christ? You need to study your Bible.

 

This is excellent.

 

Good point, about the oil, which makes me think of this scripture, Proverbs 23:20 Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat.
This scripture talks against too much wine, not wine per se. In addition, do those here who are against wine stay away from people who eat a lot of meat? I do not think so.

 

I think the scriptures you gave and the point you made show the purer side when one obeys and does not abuse wine.

 

And your point? The fruit of the vine (unfermented wine or the fruit of the vine more accurately) is what they would enjoy. Alcohol is not the harvest. Alcohol is not the increase of the land. That is not the context here; grapes are.

Grapes are gathered in resulting in grape juice.

This describes the Tabernacle, which would later become the Temple. Why would those things that represent defilement go into the Tabernacle or Temple. Leaven was not permitted.

First, this is a prophetic verse speaking of the Millennial Kingdom. So it is out of context.
Second, it is again speaking of the produce of the land which is grapes, that is fresh grapes, not corrupted grapes.

Did wine make Noah's heart glad?
Did it make the heart of Lemuel (Prov.31) glad? No. In fact it was suggested that wine be given to the sick and dying;
Proverbs 31:6-7 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
--A merry heart indeed!!

We don't see the same things. You see what you want to see because you have a cultural bias with an English word that you subconsciously can only define one way.

Could it not be that the common way of preserving any of their fruits, whether apples, grapes, etc. was via a thick syrup. Water, of course, would spoil the concentrate. If it was mixed with water, not only would you be able to make a proper amount of grape-juice, one wouldn't be able to make his fermented wine either. It would be spoiled.

The treading of the grapes, comparable to bringing in the harvest on the plains, was a joyous time. It is a time of Thanksgiving, which you celebrate as a national holiday.

This you have wrong.
Wine represents in many places the wrath of God.
And in particular the leaven: false doctrine, sin, malice, wickedness.

 

The only issue I take with you is this last statement. Jesus is speaking of the APPARENT kingdom of God on earth. The kingdom that is likened unto leaven is the PROFESSING kingdom of God consisting of TARES and "BIRDS" false teachers in so much that the true kingdom children are "hidden" and won't be revealed unto the coming of the Lord when the TARES are removed (vv. 43-44).

Notice that the two small parables of the leaven and mustard seed are placed in between the parable and its explanation. Why? Because they emphasize the UNNATURAL appearance of God's kingdom on earth. The LARGE appearance is due to false professors and false doctrine.

When you look at a mustard seed and compare it to the plant it produces then it is obvious that the size is deceptive and so is the size of the APPARENT KINGDOM of God on earth.

When you HIDE leaven in dough the dough takes on an UNNATURAL APPARENT SIZE and so does the APPEARNCE of the Kingdom of God on earth due to false tares and doctrine.

Now in this APPARENT kingdom of God the true children are "HID" like a treasure in a field and won't be revealed until a separation takes place in the APPARENT kingdom of God.