Drugs

Discussion in 'Youth Forum' started by freeatlast, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Those of us that belong to God (are saved) have a righteous nature (new nature). Ultimately what we choose determines our destiny. If we are those who choose to live for the Spirit, then we will one day live in perfection with no more sinful body to weigh us down. We will be given a new body that cannot sin, so we will be complete. This is all want it means to live in faith.

    1 Corinthians 15:42
    So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;

    Galatians 6:8
    The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

    Now think of the word ENJOY, it literally means to have joy and joy comes from God right?
    So if you think about it, the ability to enjoy anything in the first place is originally from God.
    This is why Hell is a such terrible place. Because Hell is the absence of God's goodness. So there is no joy. One cannot enjoy anything, not even sin, because the ability to enjoy anything is gone. So what activities do unrepentant sinners do in Hell, well the answer is certainly not 'enjoying sin' as some think. That is impossible because joy doesn't exist there.

    Now about drugs Drugs. Well first of all natural drugs are made by God himself, and have a number of good uses, such as dulling pain and curing disease and sickness, or at least making a sick person more comfortable. So if God created plants that produce drugs, then we cannot say they are evil can we. Even alcohol is considered to be good if used for medical reasons.

    See (1 Timothy 5:23)
    Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

    Now many man-made drugs are used to help people too, but if taken recreationally they become sinful. Drugs often just release chemicals that we already have in our bodies. Marijuana a natural plant when consumed or smoked makes our bodies produce a lot of Endorphins which are renowned worldwide as anti-stress hormones that relieve pain naturally. They are normally naturally secreted to remove stress or pain. They actually block the signal of pain to the nervous system. This reduction of pain causes a euphoric effect to occur. Now even Marijuana can be used correctly for those in pain and was actually used by ancient cultures when woman gave birth for example.

    If however you take Marijuana regularly as a recreational drug, what happens is your body produces a lot of Endorphins which causes the High, but after the effect has worn off, your body actually produces less Endorphins naturally afterward, which explains the depressed feeling one may experience when they are not under the influence. Being under the influence of anything other then the Spirit is sin except in times when we need a drug for medical purposes. This causes some people to take more marijuana to get the high back, and then these people end up in a vicious circle of depression and high. But naturally speaking with no inducement from any drugs, your body will produce the correct amount of Endorphins and you should be more stable and happy overall. In other words every time you light up, you are really taking an overdraft that you will have to pay back in the form of less Endorphins i.e.; depression, later on, and any such activity is sin, because we are wanting to achieve something in our life outside of God.

    Now about the question "why do drugs feel so good and yet only good can come from God", well the answer is in the question. All good comes from God, and God gives that good out in many different forms such as Endorphins in your own body or whatever. We can artificially induce those God created chemicals in our body, which will have long-term harmful effects or we can choose the benefits of letting these things happen naturally, the way God intended by surrendering our lives to God and finding the natural God given joys of life.

    Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

    Psa 144:15 Happy [is that] people, that is in such a case: [yea], happy [is that] people, whose God [is] the LORD.

    Pro 3:13 Happy [is] the man [that] findeth wisdom, and the man [that] getteth understanding.

    So why is sin enjoyable?

    Well all the ingredients such as joy, sex, drugs or whatever are actually from God and are for us to either enjoy or are there to heal us. The sin is not simply in the indulgence, but the reason for doing it. E.g. God given natural sex in Marriage is a gift from God. A drug or medicine to heal is a gift from God. But if we have sex out of marriage, then that is a sin. Should God somehow make sex out of marriage not enjoyable, because that is not really logical. Same with drugs, they are there to help us in those times when our bodies are failing medically, but should God remove the high if we use it in a recreational sense. No the high is there so you don't have to feel the pain, regardless of why you use it. Alcohol is the same. Should God remove the relaxing effect if someone decides to drink too much? No, but the sin still remains when taken for purposes that are not of the Lord.

    Remember that all things can be used for good or evil. A typical cliché here is a knife. We can use it to cut vegetables or we can use it to kill someone. Is the knife evil? No, evil comes from the heart of man. This is why it says in Colossians 2:20-22

    20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
    21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"?
    22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.

    So it is not about simply abstaining from things that God has made, but rather doing things for the right reason. This is why scripture says;

    Gal 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Though we may not intend to sin when we take a drug for recreational purposes such as to relax or feel a little better about ourselves or to prolong our ability to stay awake we actually are sinning because we are using it for a purpose that is outside of God's purpose for us. God has given us many things in this world and they all can be used to glorify Him or glorify our personal desires. Those who seek His glory will one day be with Him. Those who do not will one day be cast into outer darkness. The choice is ours.
    No drug should ever be taken for any purpose except to overcome pain or enhance in healing such as was spoken by Paul to Timothy;

    1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

    Those who are really born of God are those who are seeking His way and not the way of self or the world and these are those who will one day hear;
    Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant:

    Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

    Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    The choice is ours. Choose life!
     
  2. Margie Kritzer

    Margie Kritzer
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    Those are good points. It's really quite simple. Abusing sex, drugs, alcohol (another drug) etc.. is a sin when used outside of God's purpose. Of course, most of us know that. What SO many people don't address is that at first, sin is actually "fun". If it wasn't, people wouldn't be seduced by it. Once the sinner is ensnared by the sin, however, the fun gives way to punishment. God's punishment? Maybe...maybe not. But you can count on paying a price.

    Look at the functional adults around you. Are they still immersed in sin? My guess is that at some point, they might have learned the hard way. Consistent peace of mind is a gift from God himself, and this peace exists outside of our sin natures. We achieve this by giving over our sin nature to God in exchange for His promise of eternal life. For some people, God is the ONLY way back OUT from the sins of indulgence.
     
  3. KeithKorg19

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    I don't see a problem with smoking pot as long as it is done responsibly. Strong drugs though, are never a good idea. Pot is like alcohol, if you aren't careful it can become an addiction.
    It doesn't seem like getting faded a couple times a month can be that destructive to your Christian walk. I could be wrong though.
     
  4. Baptistgal

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    I think you are wrong, Keith. It will be very destructive. And I say that with a loving spirit towards you.

    Its harmed your body, and that will show up eventually. It will hinder your ability to think clearly as you get older, and that in and of itself will be harmful to your Christian walk. I don't know if you want to hear this or not, so I won't say much more right now. Just that I'd encourage you to get this out of your life completely now, while you still can, and IF you still can. Don't say, "Its not a problem for me because I can stop anytime I want to." Try to stop...you may find out you are right, and I hope you do. But you will only know for sure if you DO stop. If you have no problem stopping, don't go back, because next time can and most likely will be different.

    I work in my church's Reformers Unanimous chapter. I don't know if you've heard of that program, it is a Christian addictions program. And I've seen the affects of getting faded even a couple times a month. It isn't helpful, but only harmful.

    I hope you take this in the spirit it was meant.

    =)
     
  5. Johnv

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    Well, marijuana, heroine, caffiene, and nicotine are naturally occurring. So is carbon monoxide and asbestos. To presume that just because it's natural, it's good, well that's what we call just plain irresponsible. Water is great until you drown in it.


    Naturally or manmade makes no difference.

    I refer you back to carbon monoxide.

    Marijuana also makes you sterile. It's also highly addictive. But besides that, poison ivy is a natural plant, too. You gonna smoke that?

    Under a doctor's supervision, I'd agree with you. Studies have shown that nearly all people who attempt to self-medicate are doing so incorrectly, and typically are using too great a dose.

    CLearly, you're confusing "what is good" and "what feels good". An abusive spouse will say that hitting your spouse feels good. That dun't make it good. Giving your boss the middle finger feels good, but if you have career aspirations, I wouldn't advise it.

    If sin weren't enjoyable, it would be easy to avoid.


    I'm gonna stop here. Your post is incredibly lengthy.
     
  6. Johnv

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    You don't smoke pot for any purpose but to get high (which doesn't take much). Getting high for the purpose of enjoying the high is a sin. It's abuse.

    Pot is NOT like alcohol. You can consume alcohol in a manner which doesn't make you drunk. Smoking pot makes you high.
    It doesn't seem like me having sex with only a couple of different partners a month would be destructive to my Christian walk either, but guess what?
     
  7. KeithKorg19

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    BaptistGal,
    I see how you got the wrong impression, but I personally don't smoke pot.

    Johnv,
    I'm not disputing the fact that the purpose of smoking pot is to get high. What I mean by "responsibly" is not letting it interfere with your work or relations with family and friends.
    I don't think this is a good reason.

    I don't understand why getting high for the purpose of pleasure is actually a sin. Does it hinder your communication with God? If anything it seems like it might be benificial, given that it clears you mind of anxiety and gives you a more 'simplistic' view of things.
    It is easy to just label it sin, but what part of it makes it a sin? Why?
     
  8. KeithKorg19

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    Yeah it does. Those two things don't really compare.
     
  9. Johnv

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    If you think you can "responsibly" get high and not let it affect your work or relations with family and friends, you've got a problem. Additionally, you're simply lying to yourself.

    One could make the same arguement with getting drunk, or getting high off heroine or cocaine.

    That's the stupidest rationalization for drug abuse I've ever heard. "Hey God, I wanna have a relationship with you, but I need to get high first.
    It's an abuse of the temple of the Holy Spirit (your body), because it gets your body to operate in a manner for which it wasn't designed. The body wasn't designed to process the chemicals in pot. Although cannabis contains at least 400 different chemicals, its main mind-altering ingredient is THC. A mild hallucinogen, marijuana has many of alcohol’s depressant and disinhibiting properties. Effects of smoking are generally felt within a few minutes and peak in 10 to 30 minutes. They include dry mouth and throat, increased heart rate, impaired coordination and balance, delayed reaction time, and diminished short-term memory. Moderate doses tend to induce a sense of well-being and a dreamy state of relaxation that encourages fantasies, renders some users highly suggestible, and distorts perception (making it dangerous to operate machinery, drive a car or boat, or ride a bicycle). Stronger doses prompt more intense and often disturbing reactions including paranoia and hallucinations.

    Most of marijuana’s short-term effects wear off within two or three hours. The drug itself, however, tends to linger on up to four weeks later.

    Marijuana use reduces learning ability. Pot users will have high frequencies of chest colds, bronchitis, emphysema, and bronchial asthma. Persistent use will damage lungs and airways and raise the risk of cancer. There is just as much exposure to cancer-causing chemicals from smoking one marijuana joint as smoking five tobacco cigarettes. Marijuana also limits the ability of the immune system to fight infection and disease. Marijuana also affects hormones. Regular use can delay the onset of puberty in young men and reduce sperm production. For women, regular use may disrupt normal monthly menstrual cycles and inhibit ovulation. In some cases, testicular and ovarian cancer develop. Heart attacks are frequent among chronic pot users.
     
  10. lindz

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    i think you guys who think smoking/drinking/etc. is okay should get into the Bible and get counseling from your pastor!

    READ the BIBLE! it condemns that which is harmful to the body. Tylenol is alright! Marijuana is wrong! Why? You have to inhale smoke to get the drug. Oh yeah adn why is it okay to smoke jsut b/c it was used for pregnant wemon in ancient days? Well in the early 1800s China used opium to cure things like sickness now look where they are. the poor farmers are poor b/c they are stuck in a shanty wrapped in blankets smoking and not being able to function. opium is used for heroine- is heroine good for the body- NO! Neither is mari. or anything else. Read Prov. 23:29-35!!!

    If you don't think the Bible condemns that stuff, it's illegal to drive in drunkness, smoke mari., etc. so then it would be going against Titus 2:11-14 and titus 3:1. if it's against the law it is wrong!!!!! C'mon! quit being apathetic! if it's wrong GOD and the BIBLE sondemns it!
     
  11. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    A person gets "Faded" a couple of times a month as you put it does not have a Christian walk.
     
  12. GeneMBridges

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    Having spent considerable time working with persons addicted to drugs, I can see you don't understand the concept of the slippery slope. "Slippery slope" works as a logical fallacy, but this isn't about a logical argument of the mind, it's about the body.

    Every person that I have ever worked with has said the same thing. "I don't think a bump of crystal meth will hurt, as long as it doesn't interfere with my work." Next thing you know, two or three years later, they're cracked out, can't pay rent and in the street.

    "I don't think a toke of pot will hurt, as long as it doesn't interfere with my work." Until they start having memory problems.

    "I don't think smoking cigarettes is bad," until every time you get stressed out you start reaching for a cigarette and using it for a coping mechanisim.

    You smoke pot to get high. You want to get high for a reason. Why do you want to get high? Bottom line: it's a coping mechanism. There are better ways to cope with stress or life without inhaling a manmade product or even a "natural" product.

    Dude, if you are SMOKING something, consider what you are doing to your lungs. It's not nicotine, granted, but that's not the point. You are inhaling something other than the (already polluted) air we breathe into your body. Considering the current state of the environment, how on earth can you justify inhaling yet another toxin?

    Pot has one good use: as an appetite stimulant for persons with advanced cancers or HIV infection. That's about it, and that effect is achieved best through the drug marinol, not a joint.

    As for the last comment. Okay, well, I'm hard pressed to think you're capable of cogent prayer time or a decent quiet time those couple times a month you get "faded" or "baked," and something tells me that you're more likely to avoid such activities both before and after you toke up.
     
  13. donnA

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    keith=
    If the purpose is get high then it's wrong no matter how you use it.
    Pot causes brain damage. So if no one minds damageing their brain, a loss of intelligence, perment loss of memory, brain which makes the rest of your body function, then, sure, go ahead, smoke pot.
    But if you desire to be a committed christian, living to glorify God in your body, treating your body right(not killing your brain), then pot is not for you.
    Smoking pot is escaping what you do not want to have to deal with, thinking you make it go away. You can not. You can never find what you think you want or need in drugs.
    Real strength isn't drugs, it's in God. And you can do both.
     
  14. KeithKorg19

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    Woah woah woah. Are you saying that the poverty in China is caused by poor farmers smoking opium? I don't think so. It would take a long post to describe the events that has shaped China into what it is now. But the quickest answere to why the poor farmers are poor is communism.
    Besides that... not all Chinese people are poor farmers stuck in shanty towns...

    But that is beside the point,

    freeatlast
    Actually it is quite possible for someone who smokes pot to have a relationship with God. Even if getting high is a sin (which I am still not convinced), that wouldn't keep anyone from a relationship with God any more than any other sin no matter how "great" or "small".

    GeneB
    Chrystal meth would be a hard drug to justify. I've seen the affects meth has on people (revving up your motorcycle in the alley while screaming at the moon...). Not that I would want to justify meth. But I don't see meth and pot in the same league.

    It isn't always a coping mechanism. A lot of people, especially young people, smoke pot for the fun of it.


    I don't believe that you can call it sin simply because it is unhealthy. There are a lot of things that we do everyday that are unhealthy. Food we eat, sitting at a computer for hours on end... Why is pot different?

    Sure, some, but it doesn't instantly turn you into a veggie. I know people who have smoked pot for YEARS and they are a lot quicker than I am.

    Yeah yeah yeah I know. But it wasn't a rationalization, it was just a silly comment.

    Thanks for the discussion everyone,
     
  15. GeneMBridges

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    "I don't believe that you can call it sin simply because it is unhealthy. There are a lot of things that we do everyday that are unhealthy. Food we eat, sitting at a computer for hours on end... Why is pot different??

    Gotta love that line. Keith, just because we do other unhealthy things all the time does not justify adding to that list. The UN in unhealthy should speak for itself. Besides, I never said that there weren't other unhealthy things people do or that pot was different. The point is that using it is UNHEALTHY, so there is no justification for adding to the list of unhealthy things. Besides, let's stick to the issue. Those other things are red herrings. We're talking about pot, not Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Seems to me that if anything, the time you spend smoking pot could be spent, I dunno, at the gym maybe. The idea is not to do anything ELSE unhealthy and replace what is unhealthy with what is healthy. Duh.

    Is your body the temple of the Holy Spirit or not? How exactly does smoking pot not defile that temple?

    You completely missed the point about crystal meth too. It's not THE DRUG, it's ATTITUDE of the users when they first try it. That IS the same if the drug is not.

    You wrote that you didn't think it affects your walk with God to "get faded" a couple times a month. Do you honestly pray and have a good Bible study before and after you "get faded?" Could you witness to somebody while "faded?" How do you think that "getting faded" appears to lost people that would see you in that condition? Do you think that is a good testimony? Doesn't Scripture say that we should everything we do to glorify God? How does "getting faded" glorify God?

    Yep, a lot of young people use pot for fun. They do ecstacy for the fun of it too. They do crystal for the fun of it too. Please don't even try to lecture me about the reasons young people do drugs, Keith. I have worked as a substance abuse counselor, Keith. I know A LOT more about this than you do, and frankly, you are the one that is out of your league.
     
  16. hactonv

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    I work for a rehabilitation Hospital. I work as a nurse at the patients bedside. Our Rehab is so our patients get to work with therapy, and learn to walk after surgery or stroke.
    Last month I had a patient who was 20 yrs old. He has 2 kids and had a CVA. (That is a stroke)The reason for his stroke was because of the drugs. He had a g-tube, a patch, a trach, and alot of other thinks that he had to have to live.
    After spending 6 weeks in ICU and 3 more weeks over at the hospital, he came over to my hospital for 2 months. Added up that is 3 1/2 months in the hospital because of drugs.
    This man saw double, couldn't eat, couldn't speak, and couldn't walk. When he was able to walk he fell because he couldn't atomaticly walk from cement to grass or to carpet. He had to switch his eye patch every 2 hrs. Then when his kids would come, he'd have to stay in bed, because he scared them with the patch.
    It was sad to see him leave, and if he ever does another drug again...even given by the Dr. It will kill him.
    So beware, because no matter what ....DRUGS will hurt you.
     
  17. Melanie

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    Today my younger brother would have turned 41 if he was still alive.
    4 years have passed since his death from heroin. My brother had used the stuff over the course of many years I found out. Those who knew this fact said he was so careful and knew how much he could take!!!!!

    Every dead drug user will have said I know I can use this much....

    I grieve for him, grieve for his stupid wasted life, grieve for his wife, his friends and his family, me..... [​IMG]
     

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