DUELLING MYSTICS AND THE PASSION

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Spirit and Truth, Mar 28, 2004.

  1. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    Let's examine two of the "duelling mystics" that Mel sourced for the movie to "fill in" the blanks:

    MARY OF AGREDA

    "The most holy Mary, with saint John and the women who followed Her, was present at this interview; for the holy angels made room for them where they could hear and see all that was passing. Shielded by her mantle ***She wept tears of blood,** pressed forth by the sorrow which pierced her virginal heart. In her interior acts of virtue She faithfully reproduced those practiced by her most holy Son, while in her pains and endurance She copied those of his body. She asked the eternal Father to grant Her the favor of not losing sight of her divine Son, as far as was naturally possible, until his Death; and this was conceded to Her, excepting during the time in which He was in prison."

    The exact number of blows dealt out to the Savior from head to foot was ***5,115***. The great Lord and Author of all creation who, by his divine nature was incapable of suffering, was, in his human flesh and for our sake, reduced to a man of sorrows as prophesied, and was made to experience our infirmities, becoming the last of men (Is. 53, 3), a man of sorrows and the outcast of the people.

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/7194/book6c6.html

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/7194/ The complete writings

    From the vision of Saint Bridgit:

    "I received ***5480*** blows on My Body. If you wish to honor them in some way, say 15 Our Fathers and 15 Hail Marys with the following Prayers (which He taught her) for a whole year. When the year is up, you will have honored each one of My Wounds." Our Lord made the following promises to anyone who recited the 15 St. Bridget Prayers every day for a whole year:

    Read the rest here:

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Marble/8229/english.htm


    S&T:

    What we have is a differential of 365 blows between the two mystics sourced for the movie. Did Jesus mis-speak when He revealed these "details" to these mystics by direct revelation according to their statements? To endorse this movie, is to be in agreement with divination. There is no way around it.

    But what does the Catholic church say:


    Amongst these, the Revelations of St. Bridget of Sweden, of Maria Agreda, of Marina de Escobar and, in comparatively recent times, of Anne Catherine Emmerich are the most famous. Within the last fifty years, however, there has been a reaction against this procedure, a reaction due probably to the fact that so many of these revelations plainly contradict each other, for example on the question whether the right or left shoulder of Our Lord was wounded by the weight of the cross, or whether Our Saviour was nailed to the cross standing or lying. In the best modern lives of Our Saviour, such as those of Didon, Fouard, and Le Camus, every use is made of subsidiary sources of information, not neglecting even the Talmud. The work of Pre Ollivier, "The Passion" (tr., 1905), follows the same course, but in many widely-read devotional works upon this subject, for example: Faber, "The Foot of the Cross"; Gallwey, "The Watches of the Passion"; Coleridge, "Passiontide" etc.; Groenings, "Hist. of the Passion" (Eng. tr); Belser, D'Gesch. d. Leidens d. Hernn; Grimm, "Leidengeschichte Christi", the writers seem to have judged that historical or critical research was inconsistent with the ascetical purpose of their works.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11527b.htm


    For more on the "mystics":

    http://www.SeekGod.ca/gibsonbridget.htm

    For the complete analyses of the movie:

    http://www.SeekGod.ca/topicmovie.htm
     
  2. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
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    Does this post have any hope of a positive impact? Maybe so but I dread seeing it turned into another argument. I urge everyone to be cival and Christlike in your reply's.
    Murph
     
  3. donnA

    donnA
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    For some reason the pros are allowed to have their own thread where if you disagree with the mod you get deleted. So you are not allowed to post at all if you disagree with the mod. But those against are not allowed the same courtesy. Not allowed to speak up on what you believe is wrong with it, show proofs (as S&T just has, as we all have using direct quotes). Therefore this is necessary=
    (not saying anything about Murphy, just acknowledging that his warning is necessary)

    The biasness of some mods on this topic is so to the extreme that it is not pretty.
    And if you want to delete me for speaking up then do it. And prove my point.
     
  4. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    seems like another timely expose of Romish mysticism.

    it's amazing, but i've been hearing more naive acceptance of the desert fathers, Tom Merton, Henri Nouwen, n other "spiritual formation" icons of late. perhaps it's abt time to blow the watchman's trumpet?
     
  5. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    quote:

    Maybe so but I dread seeing it turned into another argument. I urge everyone to be cival and Christlike in your reply's.

    S&T:

    I am not here to argue, I am here to proclaim the Truth. I have been doing that on other area of BB and have caught a lot of flak and negative criticism. There is, however, a major consolation. No one has proven any of my facts to be errant. They have attempted to change the subject, pulled out their "feelings", shouted at me about things that are not relevant, but in the end, the facts still stand, and there is scripture to back them up. I don't even like to argue, but I will, however, earnestly contend for the faith when necessary. We are all told that we should...it is written.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  6. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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  7. donnA

    donnA
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
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    You aren't talking about this forum are you Donna?
    Murph
     
  9. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
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    I am sorry S&T, maybe you aren't here to argue but with quotes like this unprovoked(atleast on this thread) you are definately on the right course to start an argument. That isn't your intent is it?
    Murph
     
  10. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    Just reporting the facts as I see them brother Murph. Anyone on the forum is always welcome to refute what I have said using scripture. I do not typically find much disagreement over here in fundy land. Seems like most of the people who reside here are grounded quite well.
     
  11. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    Should we recommend a movie to the unsaved and the saved that exalts Mary and portrays her as having mystical supernatural powers?


    A very wise man once said:

    1 Corinthians 10

    19 What then do I say, that an idol is anything, or that an idolatrous sacrifice is anything?
    20 But the things the nations sacrifice, "they sacrifice to demons, and not to God." Deut. 32:17 But I do not want you to become sharers of demons;
    21 you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and a cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord, and a table of demons.
    22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He? Deut. 32:21


    This man's credentials were highly reputed.......by God and Jesus:

    Acts 26

    15 And I said, Who are you, Sir? And He said, I am Jesus whom you persecute;
    16 but rise up and stand on your feet, for it is for this reason I appeared to you, to appoint you a servant and a witness both of what you saw, and in what I shall appear to you,
    17 having delivered you from the people and the nations, to whom I now send you,
    18 to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the authority of Satan to God, in order that they may receive remission of sins, and an inheritance among those being sanctified by faith in Me.

    Acts 9
    10 And there was a certain disciple in Damascus named Ananias. And the Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias! And he said, Behold, Lord, I am here.
    11 And the Lord said to him, Rising up pass along on the street being called Straight and seek a Tarsian, Saul by name, in the house of Judas. For, behold, he is praying.
    12 And he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in and putting a hand on him, so that he may see again.
    13 And Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many bad things he did to Your saints in Jerusalem.
    14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all the ones calling on Your name.
    15 And the Lord said to him, Go, for this one is a chosen vessel to Me, to bear My name before nations and kings and the sons of Israel.

    Acts 22
    12 And a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the Law, having been testified to by all the Jews living there,
    13 coming to me and standing by, he said to me, Brother Saul, look up. And in the same hour I looked up on him.
    14 And he said, The God of our fathers appointed you to know His will, and to see the Just One, and to hear a voice out of His mouth;
    15 for you shall be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard.

    S&T:

    The Truth...accept no substitute......
     
  12. onestand

    onestand
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    eh, i've already made my stand on the movie known, so i see no reason to post more on this thread too about my stand.
     
  13. donnA

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    You aren't talking about this forum are you Donna?
    Murph
    </font>[/QUOTE]No Murphy, it's one down below.
     
  14. computerjunkie

    computerjunkie
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    Anybody know where vaspers is? He was a pretty vocal anti-Passion guy, and I haven't seen him around lately. :confused:

    Just curious...
    CJ
     
  15. C.S. Murphy

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  16. C.S. Murphy

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    I was thinking about my concerns about the passion last night as I saw a tv commercial offering a free video about Christ and easter. The catch was you had to call the latter day saints or ask your neighborhood mormon to receive it. Now here is the thought, would any of us promote or approve of those we care about viewing this film. It is about Jesus yes but it is promoted and produced by mormons so I doubt anyone would promote it, even those who are promoting the passion. Any thoughts?
    Murph
     
  17. computerjunkie

    computerjunkie
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    Maybe vaspers got mixed up and posted in the wrong thread! :D

    CJ
     
  18. computerjunkie

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    Murph, my thought would be that if it helps people better "understand what Jesus did for them", then it would be a great movie to see and recommend. If it opens doors to share the gospel, great! Wouldn't really matter WHO the Jesus was it was promoting, or the beliefs of who produced it, as long as it was about Jesus. [​IMG]

    (/sarcasm)

    Great analogy, by the way! (Wonder how many have gotten a free Bible from the same organization?)

    CJ
     
  19. donnA

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    I was thinking about my concerns about the passion last night as I saw a tv commercial offering a free video about Christ and easter. The catch was you had to call the latter day saints or ask your neighborhood mormon to receive it. Now here is the thought, would any of us promote or approve of those we care about viewing this film. It is about Jesus yes but it is promoted and produced by mormons so I doubt anyone would promote it, even those who are promoting the passion. Any thoughts?
    Murph
    </font>[/QUOTE]I have some thoughts Murphy. I saw the commercial last week, thought oh cool, then I realized thats that mormon voice promoting this movie. And it was. Had I seen only the first part of that commercial I might have callled for it. But... knowing what they teach there was no way I wanted to promote that in my house and family.
     
  20. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
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    aaaaahhhhhhh....the smell of reality coffee mixed with the fundy fresh air.........take a deep breath.......it appears that there are no "strangers" in this end of town tonight [​IMG]
     

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