e-mail exchanges re Sabbath's Resurrection of Christ

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    e-mail exchanges

    26 06 13
    Sabbath shadow of

    [Q:]Sabbath was a shadow of what?[QE]

    1)
    The Sabbath from the beginning was a shadow of Christ that He WOULD RISE ON IT from the dead and accomplish / finish the Rest of God. [Salvation]

    2)
    The Sabbath after Christ ROSE ON IT from the dead, to "The Body of Christ's Own" became "a shadow/spectre-of-things-a-coming indeed OF SABBATHS' FEAST OF CHRIST … (and of) ... holding to (Him) the Head Nourishment being ministered … eating and drinking … of Christ the Substance". [Worship]

    3)
    The Sabbath, because Jesus HAD RAISED from the dead ON IT, is a shadow of the future and day of judgment and of the resurrection of "all the dead" at the coming of Christ. [Redemption]

    4)
    The Sabbath is a shadow of after the return of Jesus Christ and everlasting life on the New Earth. [Restoration]

    5)
    The Sabbath is a shadow of THESE four things,
    Hope of Christ—from the creation of the world;
    Love in Christ—from that He rose from the dead and worship in His Name had begun;
    Faith in Jesus—through perseverance of the saints until the coming of Christ; and
    Peace from now into the end and eternity after;
    —which things then, are the shadowing forth through the Sabbath Day of the Perfect Salvation-Rest of God which He had wrought in Jesus Christ when He raised Him from the dead. [Peace]
    2Chronicles 23:21 2Kings11:19,20

    Nothing ever like it could be said from the Scriptures of the First Day of the week; much less of 'Sunday'.

    [Q:]If the Sabbath you are referring to is on Sunday, then may I humbly differ from you and offer another opinion on this. I will not be advocating any denominational doctrine but just highlighting what I have been able to gather through research. I honestly believe that the Biblical Sabbath is NOT on Sunday. The Catholic Church strongly agrees with this and firmly claims that all who worship on Sunday (all denominations, ministries, fellowships, etc) as long as they don't honour what is taught in the Word of God, are adherents of the Catholic doctrine. Does this sound familiar?
    I also believe that Jesus Christ rose on the first day of the week, that is, on Sunday. Just a little question I've NEVER heard Biblical scholars discussing - when Jesus rose from the dead, He left the graveclothes inside the tomb, who brought Him garments to wear?? (Or we should just assume that an angel came down and adorned Him, etc)
    May the God of peace be with you.[QE]


    You are quite right. ‘Sunday’ is not the Sabbath and neither is Sunday or the First Day of the week the Lord’s Day; the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD is the only “Holy-of-the-Lord-Day” Isaiah 58:13, but because “Jesus gave them Rest, there THEREFORE remains valid for the—Christian—People of God a Sabbath Day’s-rest” or ‘Sabbatism’. Hebrews 4:8,9.

    The great truth about the Sabbath is that the Lord Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE DEAD on it --- For two reasons,
    One, That “THUS God concerning the Seventh Day … in time PAST … through the PROPHETS … spake” Hebrews 1:2; 4:4 and
    Two, That “THUS God concerning the Seventh Day … in THESE LAST DAYS, BY THE SON hath spoken—by the Son whom He hath appointed HEIR of all things”.

    Now, Where, when and how “appointed God the Son, HEIR of all things”?

    Here, thus and when:
    Ephesians 1:18-20,
    “The eyes of your understanding being enlightened that ye may know what is the hope of his [Christ’s] calling, and what the riches of the glory of his [Christ’s] INHERITANCE in the saints—and what the exceeding greatness of his Power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his Mighty Power which God WROUGHT / ACCOMPLISHED / FINISHED IN CHRIST WHEN HE RAISED HIM from the dead and RESTED Him up enthroned at his own Right Hand in (his) heavenly … INHERITANCE.”

    The Roman church—as all the Christian Church—strongly DISAGREES with THIS and firmly OPPOSES IT, and it being EXPOSED to “True Believers” in the Son and in his Resurrection from the dead “LATE ON / IN THE SABBATH” Matthew 28:1. So they corrupted mentioned Scripture and about 20 more, to force them in line with heretical papal error.
     
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    [Q:]Verwyder my asb van u adreslys af.[QE]

    'Please remove me from your address list.'
     
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    John 20:1, standard translations questioned

    John 20:1,
    Τῇ δὲ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ ἔρχεται πρωῒ σκοτίας ἔτι οὔσης εἰς τὸ μνημεῖον,
    ‘Tehi de mian tohn sabbatohn Maria heh Magdalehneh erchetai PROHÏ SKOTIAS ETI OUSEHS’,

    Years ago I came across this text in Jeremiah, 15:9. I forgot about it, and just the other day while sorting out old papers, found it among them.

    Quote
    <epedu ho hehlios autehi eti mesousehs tehs hehmeras>QE
    <Her sun is gone down while it is yet noon>

    'epedu' - 'had gone under'

    'ho hehlios autehi' - 'her sun'

    'eti' - 'still' / 'while' / ‘yet’

    'mesousehs' - 'being ['ousehs'] middle ['mes(os)']

    'tehs hehmeras' - 'of the day' ...

    … “WHILE BEING noon” exactly like WHILE BEING noon / “middle of the day”, it was or became darkness from the sixth hour [noon] until the ninth hour [mid-afternoon] on the day that Jesus died.

    Now, compare the meaning of “while being still”- ἔτι οὔσης ‘eti ousehs’, “noon / midday”, ‘mesos’< ‘meso(s o)usehs’ in Jeremiah, 15:9, to “while being still”- ἔτι οὔσης ‘eti ousehs’, “early darkness”- πρωῒ σκοτίας ‘prohï skotias’, in John 20:1, <Τῇ δὲ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ ἔρχεται πρωῒ σκοτίας ἔτι οὔσης εἰς τὸ μνημεῖον,>
    “The First Day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene WHILE IT WAS / WHILE BEING EARLY DARKNESS STILL…”

    …or is it, “cometh Mary Magdalene early [MORNING] when yet dark”?

    “While being still ...” WHAT? is the question here,
    Either, “While being still EARLY DARKNESS” as such—that is—“While being still early darkness that is evening after sunset that is DUSK”?
    Or, “While being still early darkness” not as such, but that is early morning that is DAWN?

    “Darkness” is no Adverb, ‘dark’, ‘skoteinos’;
    “Darkness”, ‘skotias’, is a Noun Genitive from ‘heh skotia’, ‘the evening’ – “darkness-OF-evening” which is ‘dusk after sunset’ 15 times in the NT—NOT ‘darkness-of-morning’ which is ‘dawn’, ‘diaugadzoh’.

    “Early” is an Adverb, ‘prohï’; and it tells that it “was EARLY-of-evening still”. It was not ‘while the morning still dark starting to get light’. “Early” on its own is no Noun therefore; only in conjunction with “darkness”, “being early-darkness still” does “early” form an Adjectival Substantive, “[the] early-darkness”.

    From these indisputable grammatical and syntactical facts it must therefore be deduced that “Mary Magdalene comes to the grave on the First Day BEING EARLY EVENING STILL” which would be ‘Saturday evening’ some time after sunset but before proper darkness of night.

    This conclusion also is perfectly logical and consequential with all following events during that ‘Saturday night’ which in Bible terms was “the First Day of the week” its FIRST part, the “EVENING” of its still prospective night “WHILE BEING EARLY EVENING STILL”.



    [Q:]From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: 25 June 2013 12:59 AM
    To: Gerhard Ebersöhn
    Subject: Topic disapproved - "John 20:1, standard translations questioned"

    Hello Gerhard Ebersöhn,

    You are receiving this notification because your topic "John 20:1, standard
    translations questioned" at "B-Greek: The Biblical Greek Forum" was
    disapproved by a moderator or administrator.

    The following reason was given for the disapproval:

    B-Greek requires knowledge of Greek. See
    http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11

    From your post, I assume you are a beginner. Questions from beginners are
    fine, in the beginner's section, but this kind of lecture really isn't. I
    gather you don't really know why translations translate the way they do, or
    what the grammatical issues are.

    As a beginner, start with beginner's questions in the beginner's forum.

    Thanks, The Management[QE]


    Reply:
    Put up a front of scholarship in Biblical Greek is the best reply you can muster. I fail you. Zero for your peevish and cowardly dodging a challenge.
     
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Jonathan Robie [[email protected]]
    Huh?
    I didn't realize I was dodging any particular challenge, I thought I was rejecting a post that was pretty ignorant about Greek, and suggesting that you might want to ask questions or hang out in the beginner's forum. B-Greek is a biblical Greek forum that presumes people can read and discuss Greek at a certain level of knowledge.
    Nothing in your original post or your response makes me think you can even read a page of Greek.
    Jonathan
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Mark Lightman [[email protected]]
    χαῖρε φίλε Gerhard!
    We welcome such posts on Textkit where the moderators don't censor things unless they are obscene or hateful. I hope you will consider joining and posting your questions there.
    ἔρρωσο ἐν ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ!
    Mark L
    FWSFOROS MARKOS
     
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Dear friend Mark,

    Let us get out into the open and discuss my <particular challenge> [acc. to one ‘Jonathan’] publicly on an accessible to anyone forum, so that the unlearned and simple like myself, can understand. For these things are what matter to us class of humans; not the lofty stuff discussed only in the obscurity of academic boardrooms.

    I suggest the most respectable (-to me-) discussion forum on internet for layman or scholar, http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2002748&posted=1#post2002748

    Thanks for your friendliness. It’s appreciated!

    Vale

    GE
     
    #6 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2013
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    From: Mbuzeli Mrwetyana [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: 28 June 2013 10:18 AM
    To: Gerhard
    Subject: Christ's resurrection

    Gerhard, could you in just a short paragraph, tell me 1. when (which day of the week) was Jesus nailed to the cross? 2. how many days was He in the tomb? 3. when did He rise from the grave (what time of the day)??

    Thanks.

    Mbuzeli
    (Cape Town, South Africa)



    Three days—first two of
    18 07 12

    “That the Scriptures should be fulfilled, A bone of Him shall not be broken / severed.” John 19:36.

    FIRST of the “three days” …
    “THIS DAY …” (Luke 22:34) beginning, sunset …
    “EVENING …” Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1
    “… when the hour” Luke 22:14
    “NIGHT …” John 13:30
    “… hour and power of darkness …” Luke 22:53,61
    “AS DAY BROKE …” Luke 22:66
    “TODAY … Luke 23:43
    “The ASSEMBLY …” – Luke 23:48a Mark 15:16,41 Matthew 27:36,47 John 19:26 “… pierced my hands and feet. Psalm 22:16
    “… the sixth hour …” Luke 23:44a
    “… NINTH hour … 44b
    “ALL RETURNED” Luke 23:48.

    SECOND of the “three days” …
    “THAT DAY” (Luke 22:54a)
    “Selfsame Day / BONE-Day”* “sabbath” Ex 12:17,51 Lev 23:11,15,16
    “… great day sabbath” John 19:31
    “FIRST DAY eat nothing leavened” Ex 12:20
    “FIRST DAY Eat Unleavened Bread” Ex 12:15c,16a Lev 23:7 …
    “This Selfsame Day brought out” Ex 12:17, Nmb 33:3
    “THIS DAY FEAST” Ex 12:40 John 18:28x19:31
    “THIS IS THAT NIGHT OBSERVED” Ex 12:42 Lev 23:6
    “EVENING …” Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31 Luke 23:50
    “THEREFORE, SINCE it had become the Preparation …
    “BECAUSE THAT (sabbath) day was great sabbath(-day)” John 19:31
    “… they brake not his legs …” John 19:33,36 Ex 12:9
    “… out of his side came blood” John 19:34, 7:9 Ex 12:22,23,13
    “… for a sign which shall be spoken against” Luke 2:34,35
    “My bones are pierced in Me IN THE NIGHT” Job 30:17
    “They shall look upon Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him as one mourneth for his only son and shall be in bitterness for his firstborn.” Zechariah 12:10b Exodus 12:30 “In the NIGHT there was a great cry for not a house was there without a firstborn dead.”
    “AFTER THIS …” John 19:38
    “… suddenly there came Joseph …” Luke 23:50
    “THE FIRST NIGHT … also Nicodemus came there …” John 19:39

    … “night and day” until …

    “BY THE TIME therefore of the Jews’ preparations, laid they Jesus” John 19:42
    “Joseph rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre …” Mark 15:46
    “… and departed.” Matthew 27:60
    “THAT DAY had been The Preparation, and the Sabbath began to draw near.” Luke 23:54.
    “Having returned home, the women prepared spices and ointments, and …”
    after sunset-end of “… the Fore-Sabbath …” Mark 15:42
    “…began to rest the Sabbath according to the Commandment.”


    “The Third Day” …
    . . . . . . .
    Abib 16, Friday night and Saturday day = Seventh Day Sabbath....

    3A) HERE BEGINS the THIRD of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    THAT JESUS WOULD RISE FROM THE DEAD ON :–
    Lk23:56b

    3B) HERE is the MORNING of the THIRD of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    Pilate ordered a guard “for the third day” :–
    Mt27:62–66

    3C) HERE is “IN the Sabbath’s Fullness MID–AFTERNOON” of the THIRD of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the LORD :–
    Mt28:1–4.

    __________________________________________________ ___

    Abib 17, Saturday night and Sunday day = First Day ....

    4A) HERE begins the day AFTER the “three days” (fourth day of the passover season) :–
    that Jesus WOULD APPEAR on :–
    Mk16:1, “When the Sabbath was past ..... they BOUGHT ....”

    4B) HERE is the EVENING of this day,
    Jn20:1–10 Mary sees the DOOR STONE was away from the tomb (discovers tomb has been OPENED);

    4C) HERE is the NIGHT of this day,
    Lk24:1–10 “DEEP(EST) DARKNESS” ––– “women with their spices” and ointments go to salve the body; “they found Him NOT” (discover tomb is EMPTY);
    Mk16:2–8 “very early (before) SUN’S RISING” ––– women’s return–visit to ascertain; “they fled terrified and told NO ONE”.

    4D) Here is sunrise (‘Sunday’ morning),
    Jn20:11f, Mk16:9 “Mary had had stood behind” .... saw the gardener (sunrise); “Risen, early (sunrise) on the First Day, Jesus first APPEARED to Mary ....”
    Mt28:5–10 “The angel explained to the (other) women (Mt28:1–4) .... As they went to tell .... Jesus met them” (after sunrise).
    Mt28:11–15 Guard to high priests.
    USE BIBLES OF BEFORE THE TWENTIETH CENTURY – they are not as wangled as the later ones. And compare those ancient translations with the modern ones to see the truth of the older ones!


    Objection:
    “The same verse you earlier used to assert that He resurrected on the Sabbath, can also be used to assert that He resurrected on Sunday!”

    Answer:
    If the verse you have in mind is Mt28:1, it CANNOT “also be used to assert that He resurrected on Sunday!”

    1) BECAUSE of all the reasons I have already given from ALL the Scriptures;
    2) BECAUSE of its ONLY CORRECT literal meaning:

    “opse de” and in fullness / late on / in
    “sabbatohn” of the Sabbath
    (“sabbatohn”) the Sabbath’s / Sabbath’s–time’s
    “tehi” in the
    “epi” very / midst
    “phohs” light / daylight / (noon)
    “ousehi” in the being
    “eis” towards / before / tending / against
    “mian (hehmeran) sabbatohn” Acc=excluded First (Day) of the week.

    3) Precisely as used in Lk23:54 for Friday “mid–afternoon before the Sabbath”.

    4) BECAUSE of the Exodus and Leviticus passover instructions concerning Abib 14, 15, and 16.

    5) BECAUSE of Mt12:40 and “three days AND three nights”.

    THEREFORE:
    1) Fifth Day : Wednesday night and Thursday day ––– Abib 14, Remove leaven and slaughter lamb;
    2) Sixth Day / “the Preparation WHICH IS the Foresabbath” : Thursday night and Friday day ––– Abib 15, “that which remaineth” carried out and burned (interred);
    3) Seventh Day Sabbath “according to the (Fourth) Commandment” : Friday night and Sabbath, day ––– Abib 16, “First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the LORD”.


    Countless more variations and aspects of and approaches to the same, in hundreds of articles, conversations, debates etc and about 40 books (20) published at
    http://www.biblestudents.co.za
    http://thelordsday.wordpress.com/books/

    and (20) unpublished but available ‘live’ on several Christian Discussion Forums like
    http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread
    http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist



    ________________________________________
    From: Mbuzeli Mrwetyana [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: 28 June 2013 10:18 AM
    To: Gerhard
    Subject: Christ's resurrection

    Gerhard, could you in just a short paragraph, tell me 1. when (which day of the week) was Jesus nailed to the cross? 2. how many days was He in the tomb? 3. when did He rise from the grave (what time of the day)??

    Thanks.

    Mbuzeli
    (Cape Town, South Africa)
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Mark Lightman [[email protected]]

    Hi, Gerhard,

    I took the trouble to join the Baptist Board, but I am still not approved, so I cannot reply to your excellent post. It's not your fault that I have not been approved, but it is frustrating. Why can't we just talk to each other without going through all these hoops? I know that spammers slow down the approval process.

    Is it okay if I cut and paste your post and post it on Textkit without using your name? Then I can respond to it publically. If you want to join Textkit to respond, you can, if not, at least it is out in the open. On Textkit recently there have been some great posts which also raise the question of a Saturday Sabbath.

    Let me know.

    Mark L



    Mark L:

    Mark Lightman [[email protected]]

    Hi, Gerhard,

    I took the trouble to join the Baptist Board, but I am still not approved, so I cannot reply to your excellent post. It's not your fault that I have not been approved, but it is frustrating. Why can't we just talk to each other without going through all these hoops? I know that spammers slow down the approval process.

    Is it okay if I cut and paste your post and post it on Textkit without using your name? Then I can respond to it publically. If you want to join Textkit to respond, you can, if not, at least it is out in the open. On Textkit recently there have been some great posts which also raise the question of a Saturday Sabbath.

    Let me know.

    Mark L


    GE:

    Your effort to join BB appreciated.
    I’m sure you will be ‘approved’.
    They accommodate applicants according to ‘Baptist’ and non-Baptist. If you’re not a Baptist, they will probably allow you on the ‘Other denominations’ forum at BB where I also post.

    Because of very little time I don’t know when I’ll again visit B Greek; so hope to see you soon on BB!

    Good luck
    GE
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    GE:


    Three days—first two of
    18 07 12

    “That the Scriptures should be fulfilled, A bone of Him shall not be broken / severed.” John 19:36.

    FIRST of the “three days” …
    “THIS DAY …” (Luke 22:34) beginning, sunset …
    “EVENING …” Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1
    “… when the hour” Luke 22:14
    “NIGHT …” John 13:30
    “… hour and power of darkness …” Luke 22:53,61
    “AS DAY BROKE …” Luke 22:66
    “TODAY … Luke 23:43
    “The ASSEMBLY …” – Luke 23:48a Mark 15:16,41 Matthew 27:36,47 John 19:26 “… pierced my hands and feet. Psalm 22:16
    “… the sixth hour …” Luke 23:44a
    “… NINTH hour … 44b
    “ALL RETURNED” Luke 23:48.

    SECOND of the “three days” …
    “THAT DAY” (Luke 22:54a)
    “Selfsame Day / BONE-Day”* “sabbath” Ex 12:17,51 Lev 23:11,15,16
    “… great day sabbath” John 19:31
    “FIRST DAY eat nothing leavened” Ex 12:20
    “FIRST DAY Eat Unleavened Bread” Ex 12:15c,16a Lev 23:7 …
    “This Selfsame Day brought out” Ex 12:17, Nmb 33:3
    “THIS DAY FEAST” Ex 12:40 John 18:28x19:31
    “THIS IS THAT NIGHT OBSERVED” Ex 12:42 Lev 23:6
    “EVENING …” Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31 Luke 23:50
    “THEREFORE, SINCE it had become the Preparation …
    “BECAUSE THAT (sabbath) day was great sabbath(-day)” John 19:31
    “… they brake not his legs …” John 19:33,36 Ex 12:9
    “… out of his side came blood” John 19:34, 7:9 Ex 12:22,23,13
    “… for a sign which shall be spoken against” Luke 2:34,35
    “My bones are pierced in Me IN THE NIGHT” Job 30:17
    “They shall look upon Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him as one mourneth for his only son and shall be in bitterness for his firstborn.” Zechariah 12:10b Exodus 12:30 “In the NIGHT there was a great cry for not a house was there without a firstborn dead.”
    “AFTER THIS …” John 19:38
    “… suddenly there came Joseph …” Luke 23:50
    “THE FIRST NIGHT … also Nicodemus came there …” John 19:39

    … “night and day” until …

    “BY THE TIME therefore of the Jews’ preparations, laid they Jesus” John 19:42
    “Joseph rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre …” Mark 15:46
    “… and departed.” Matthew 27:60
    “THAT DAY had been The Preparation, and the Sabbath began to draw near.” Luke 23:54.
    “Having returned home, the women prepared spices and ointments, and …”
    after sunset-end of “… the Fore-Sabbath …” Mark 15:42
    “…began to rest the Sabbath according to the Commandment.”


    “The Third Day” …
    . . . . . . .
    Abib 16, Friday night and Saturday day = Seventh Day Sabbath....

    3A) HERE BEGINS the THIRD of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    THAT JESUS WOULD RISE FROM THE DEAD ON :–
    Lk23:56b

    3B) HERE is the MORNING of the THIRD of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    Pilate ordered a guard “for the third day” :–
    Mt27:62–66

    3C) HERE is “IN the Sabbath’s Fullness MID–AFTERNOON” of the THIRD of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the LORD :–
    Mt28:1–4.

    __________________________________________________ ___

    Abib 17, Saturday night and Sunday day = First Day ....

    4A) HERE begins the day AFTER the “three days” (fourth day of the passover season) :–
    that Jesus WOULD APPEAR on :–
    Mk16:1, “When the Sabbath was past ..... they BOUGHT ....”

    4B) HERE is the EVENING of this day,
    Jn20:1–10 Mary sees the DOOR STONE was away from the tomb (discovers tomb has been OPENED);

    4C) HERE is the NIGHT of this day,
    Lk24:1–10 “DEEP(EST) DARKNESS” ––– “women with their spices” and ointments go to salve the body; “they found Him NOT” (discover tomb is EMPTY);
    Mk16:2–8 “very early (before) SUN’S RISING” ––– women’s return–visit to ascertain; “they fled terrified and told NO ONE”.

    4D) Here is sunrise (‘Sunday’ morning),
    Jn20:11f, Mk16:9 “Mary had had stood behind” .... saw the gardener (sunrise); “Risen, early (sunrise) on the First Day, Jesus first APPEARED to Mary ....”
    Mt28:5–10 “The angel explained to the (other) women (Mt28:1–4) .... As they went to tell .... Jesus met them” (after sunrise).
    Mt28:11–15 Guard to high priests.
    USE BIBLES OF BEFORE THE TWENTIETH CENTURY – they are not as wangled as the later ones. And compare those ancient translations with the modern ones to see the truth of the older ones!


    Objection:
    “The same verse you earlier used to assert that He resurrected on the Sabbath, can also be used to assert that He resurrected on Sunday!”

    Answer:
    If the verse you have in mind is Mt28:1, it CANNOT “also be used to assert that He resurrected on Sunday!”

    1) BECAUSE of all the reasons I have already given from ALL the Scriptures;
    2) BECAUSE of its ONLY CORRECT literal meaning:

    “opse de” and in fullness / late on / in
    “sabbatohn” of the Sabbath
    (“sabbatohn”) the Sabbath’s / Sabbath’s–time’s
    “tehi” in the
    “epi” very / midst
    “phohs” light / daylight / (noon)
    “ousehi” in the being
    “eis” towards / before / tending / against
    “mian (hehmeran) sabbatohn” Acc=excluded First (Day) of the week.

    3) Precisely as used in Lk23:54 for Friday “mid–afternoon before the Sabbath”.

    4) BECAUSE of the Exodus and Leviticus passover instructions concerning Abib 14, 15, and 16.

    5) BECAUSE of Mt12:40 and “three days AND three nights”.

    THEREFORE:
    1) Fifth Day : Wednesday night and Thursday day ––– Abib 14, Remove leaven and slaughter lamb;
    2) Sixth Day / “the Preparation WHICH IS the Foresabbath” : Thursday night and Friday day ––– Abib 15, “that which remaineth” carried out and burned (interred);
    3) Seventh Day Sabbath “according to the (Fourth) Commandment” : Friday night and Sabbath, day ––– Abib 16, “First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the LORD”.
     
    #9 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2013
  10. Markos

    Markos
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    πρωί in John 20:1

    πρωί is the standard Greek word for "early in the morning." If "while early darkness was still being" was meant, the Greek would have to be something like πρωίας σκοτίας ἔτι οὔσης.

    The Greek text clearly says that it was early on Sunday morning.

    blessings in Jesus' name

    Mark
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Agreed.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    It is no more than your - uninformed - opinion that <<πρωί is the standard Greek word for "early in the morning.">>

    There are MANY incidences of the use of πρωί that has nothing to do with the 'morning', like early in the season, early in the war, early in history. πρωί is the 'fore-part' of anything in relation to time.

    There also are MANY other, <standard> words and or phrases in Greek for "early in the morning" that don’t have or use πρωί or any of its derivatives.

    It does not help you to simply discard everything I have presented in not only support, but inescapable PROOF that in John 20:1 “while being early-of-dark” means it LITERALLY.

    Then you also cannot discard John, who recorded the LIVE EVENTS of the “FORE-NIGHT” which also inescapably requires that the time was what John literally wrote, namely “early-of-dark yet being”.

    So, HOW IRONIC that <<πρωί is the standard Greek word for "early in the morning">> YET, almost and virtually all your ‘standard’ translations of John 20:1, LEAVE OUT THE WORD ‘EARLY’ that by ‘standard’ should be the first ---and only because, 'standard' and therefore enough, word translated?!!

    RIDICULOUS!

     
    #12 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2013
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Ja, ou ja-broer ...

    'Yes, old truckler ...'

    If it is not the Sunday keeping Sunday-advocates you Amen and Alleluia, it's your Sabbath buddies Sunday-enthusiasts you Amen and Alleluia.

    Wake up and begin to think for yourself!

     

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