Earned Income Credit

I don't like increase in taxes. I'm just not as opposed to some sort of instituted welfare system.

 

I'm not either - as long as it is done by the government that actually holds the authority to do so. The Federal does not.

 

Well and good--but let me share with you how our system is now abused:

(From our Census statistics, about 6 years ago):

Here is how "poor" can get re-defined to the point that we no miss the real point of welfare: (SOURCE)

• Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three bedroom house with one and a half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
• Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
• Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two thirds have more than two rooms per person.
• The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
• Nearly three quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
• Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
• Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
• Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

If we're gonna help the poor, let's at least make sure it's "the poor" we're helping. As it is, we're asking fewer and fewer to do more and more.

This is unsustainable.

 

I'd like you to explain that one. Remember the war between the states was won by the north for a greater and stronger federal government.

 

• In what condition? And owning at times is cheaper than renting. If you can't pay 1,000 dollars a month on rent but can afford to pay 500 dollars towards a mortgage which would you do?
  
  this is an irrelevant statitstic. All that proves is that aircondition is standard now. Previously it wasn't. Note in 1930 1% of all cars had a radio. Now 100% does. What does this mean?
  
  Yes our poor don't live like the poor in china thank God. Unless you want to treat people the same way here as they do in china? I hope not. The poor people in china may not even get payed for the work they accomplish. By our poor not living in these condition it also prevents disease and contamination finding its way into our cities and other populaces. How would you like to deal with Cholera? You don't have to deal with it because our poor aren't stacked up on top of each other in our metropolitan areas.
  
  Also another useless statistic. I've lived in Europe. They have countries smaller than our states with many times more the population. Space is at a premium in those countries. Continental United States has a lot more room. This has no bearing on poor taking advantage its about our country size.
  
  Another interesting fact. Public transportation in this country sucks! In europe you can actually take a train and get to work on time. car ownership is fewer because its not really needed. Because cities are on a smaller scale in Europe People can get around by bicycles. In this country, you have to drive 50+ miles just to get to work. Cars are a necessity in this country until they fix our public transport system to a reliable one Cars will be essential as were horses in the Wild West.
  
  As if color were the greatest thing ever! I don't think they make black and white tv's any more. You can buy one for less than a hundred dollars.
  
  VCR's should just be on their way out. DVD players have been sold for 30 dollars. Its not a big cost. Thank abusing chinese people for that. As far as cable in order to get the news which you need for alerts and such things (system emergency broadcast alert!) you need cable. Also the cost of this type of service is reduced its not like it was in the late 70's or early 80's.
  
  Same issue with radio's these things now are standard. and are cheap.

If you earn an income of 21,000 dollars annually where by you pay taxes of 10% (pay as you go) leaving you with 19,000 dollars to pay for electricity, water, natural gas, car insurance (which you need absolutely to get a job or maintain one), clothing, shoes, etc... you will see that these people have barely enough to eat on.

 

That is quite a phrase you used there. I hope you are not saying that the intent of the War between the States was to eliminate state's sovereignty. IF it was, they failed to accomplish that.

The War between the States was an illegal act. The Southern States had the legal right to quit the union, but Lincoln and the northern states didn't like that idea. Lincoln had a difficult time getting people from the north to support his idea of forcing the south to stay in the union, so he played up the slavery issue to give himself a moral standing for the attack.

Either way, the winner always gets to write the history - at least for a while.

The end result is that our constitution was never changed to eliminate the rights of the states to govern themselves. There was nothing that did that - it is still there.

The federal government gained no more power as a result of that killing of Americans. If the South had more of a manufacturing economy instead of agricultural, I wonder what things would look like now. Nobody knows.

 

So, to wrap things up, THinkingstuff thinks we ought to not only support the poor, but also make sure we give them enough so that all of the once-luxuries-turned-necessities can also be theirs.

Would hate for anyone's self-esteem to suffer.

That "whooshing" sound was Thinkingstuff taking a big swing, and completely missing, the point.

 

I agree! I also agree with you point about the Rebels losing the Civil War. When you lose you do not get to make policy, the victor does!

 

As a matter of fact more control was exerted by the federal government over the state government. State Government self governed but only to a limit. Note federal showdowns during the civil rights movement. States didn't gain any ground and self government is certainly limited to what the fed allows. that is the result of the american civil war. We are not a confederation of nations like the EU but a single entity of strongly connected states overseen by a federal government which can make states in act laws and spend their money as the fed sees fit. So as a matter of fact the federal government did gain more power. What happens when the national guard is tasked by the fed? The state gives it over. Interesting isn't it. So your dream of independent nation states loosely connected by a confederacy died during the civil war. And whether it was illegal or not that Lincoln went to war with the south to prevent seperation is irrelevant. Because the north won and stomped all over Richmond and burned Atlanta to prove it. The south lost and therefore tuff cookies on total self governing states. Just like mexicans have no right to have any say over Texas the South has limited state powers.

 

Oh I understand the black market very well. After all I grew up in Africa, Asia, and Europe. And I've also seen the poorest of the poor. However, I have also spent my adult life (for the most part) in the united states and have seen the disparaging class treatement of each other. I remember when coming back to the states I felt finally I get to live in my native country that espoused such great ideas in its declaration of independence and the constitution. But then when I traveled around and saw the racism still very alive in Tennessee, Alabama, parts of Georgia, Mississippi, Arkansas, Lousiana, etc... And when I saw the advantage taken of poor people in desparate need of Jobs in states that had limited union activity. When I saw how pharmacuticals out price customers in the US compared to other countries. When I saw insurance companies not paying for specific medication or treatment but had marble halls, when I saw the disparaging attitudes toward those who have less. I almost wept. In this country the poor are the fodder for social experiments, trying out new medications, etc... That is the real truth in this country. And its getting worse.

 

Thinking Stuff, your user name fits. Thanks for adding to this discussion.

 

The federal government has only the powers given to it by the Constitution, while states have all powers not denied to them by the Constitution. Of course, states have their own constitutions and laws.

 

true but the federal government can exert its will on the states and has done so on several occassions. And note no matter what laws the state governments have passed they must federal law is always the base line. State laws can enact laws less restrictive than federal laws however they must maintain the federal law level of restrictiveness. They can alway go more restrictive however.

 

People in the US are poor because they are ignorant and lazy, right? Poor people have a shorter life span than we hard working, smart middle class people, right? Good thing, it cleans the bottom of the gene pool, right?

Not "scientific!" Total life span has nothing to do with cleaning the gene pool. Why? Because it is the fertility rate of the poor young people that generates the poor and stupid population, right?

You say, "That's why we invented the all volunteer army and little invasions that don't effect the smarter segment of the middle class, right? We smart middle class people eliminate the decent paying low skilled jobs by killing the unions. Then the stupid, poor people enlist for the money and get themselves killed off, right? This will work as long as we convince the the suckers that they are heros, hand out cheap medals, and tell them they are saving the world from Islam, from the commies, making the world safe for democracy, whatever works.

Since 911, how many Americans earning over $100K have been killed by terrorists? Over $75K? (That's only $35/hour).

 

Wow...it's everything I've come to expect in a billwald post:

Profoundly off-topic.
Glorifies unions, at the expense of reality.
Ridicules the military.
Ends with a question that makes no sense.

 

It's not that you don't know a lot, it is that you know a lot that isn't so.

The fed has purchased its way into running state affairs. Happily, as evidenced by numerous states now, that is coming to an end.

 

I'm still wondering on what basis billwald says "we smart people".

 

I'm sorry to inform you the south won't rise again. Ask yourself this. Why does the fed excert so much control over state militias? (National Guard?) Yet despite what you think you know the states at times have been forced to take funds. The states are also given orders by the fed on how certain percentages of their funds are to be distributed. For instance if a state does not spend a certain % of their funds for certain pet causes from the fed not only does the audit go badly for them but other funds are withheld by the fed. Also during the civil rights movement there were showdowns by the states and the fed over segregation and the fed won those as well. States must maintain fed law as a base line and can not be less restrictive than the federal law dictates. That says something now doesn't it?