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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Mar 11, 2011.
Is the disaster in Japan a fulfillment of prophecy or not in your opinion.
You know I started to post something on this and stopped. Not only the disasters we are seeing but the nations at an unrest within. People rising up against their leaders. While it is hard to say if this is part of what the Lord spoke of it is an exciting time to watch and hope it is.
Well, if there were not earthquakes in 'divers places' I would think the Bible was not true.
The real point is this: the earthquake in Japan measured 8.9 on the Richter Scale, the one off Indonesia a few years ago measured 9.1. I believe the largest earthquake ever measured was 9.3. What prevents an earthquake of 10, 11, 15 or 20? What prevents a tsunami that would engulf the world, or the earth shaking itself to pieces?
Lamentations 3:22, 23. 'Through the LORD's mercies we are not consumed......Great is Your faithfulness!'
I once heard a speaker say that there have always been earthquakes in divers places but people have not always immediately heard about them until the advent of the electronic media which might be a component of:
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
So possibly it's more to do with what Jesus said ..."when ye shall hear"...
There is nothing new about earthquakes in Japan. The first recorded one that I have been able to find was in 684. For a list go to:
I'm much more concerned with issues in the Middle East that are shaping up to fulfill prophecy than an earthquake, but he earthquakes and other natural disasters also work toward that end. To call out any particular one and say "this is the advent of the end times" will probably end up with an embarrassed false prophet, but jointly, all the activity around the world is leading us one day closer to the return of Christ. Mara natha!
To say that one event is the marker to the end is incorrect as you said, but when you combine all the markers together, then we are seeing what Jesus described as the "signs".
I think the pattern of the earthquakes / tsunami's over the past few years combined with the unrest in the middle east may very well be the "birth pangs" spoken of.
Neither earthquakes nor wars/rumors of wars are signs of "the end of time" or Jesus' return.
If you don't believe me, look at what Jesus said.
I see this as Jesus specifically saying NOT to look to natural disasters, man-made wars, or pandemic diseases as the end.
If these things WERE signs of "the end", then why didn't Christ return during the Dark Ages when 1/3 of Europe was wiped out by the Black Plague? Or 100 years ago during the Great San Fransico Earthquake or in 1536 in China where over 830,000 were killed? Or if wars and rumors of wars are the sign, then why didn't He return during WWII or during the bloody reign of Genghis Khan?
It's because these things are NOT the signs. They are extremely troubling (and Jesus said don't be troubled about them) and cause mankind to ponder his own mortality and to constantly question "the end", but they are not so troubling as to interfere with God's timeline.
If you keep reading He does say what the more important thing to look for is.
Even the false prophets and lawlessness is not a sign. False prophets have been around for centuries and lawlessness/coldness of the heart man - well, just take a world history lesson. The sign - the thing that we should all be striving for and focusing on is the "this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to the all nation, and THEN the end will come."
And the great thing is that no war, no disease, no earthquake, no lawlessness, no false teacher, and no pestilence that will thwart the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ. These things will come and go. Come - and scare us to death. Go - and be forgotten in dusty history books. It's the gospel that's the trigger. All of history's timeline hinges on the gospel of Jesus Christ. The spreading of the gospel is the key - or so says Jesus in the verses from Matthew. And that is where our attention should focus.
Personally I am not looking for His return. I am looking for the rapture where He calls me to meet Him in the air or to die and be with Him that way, and when He returns I along with the rest of the church will be coming with Him in our new bodies to rule with Him for 1000 years.
Yes, freeatlast, I understand the distinction. :flower:
I am all pre-, but don't think that the earthquakes have any thing other than all of creation groaning and looking forward to it final redemption. I am not looking forward to the rapture. I am looking forward to Jesus. Not anticipating an event, but the person.
I'm anticipating both
I disagree, we cannot possibly know if these are signs of the parousia. The coming of Christ was imminent when He left and it is still imminent.
1 Thessalonians deals with the fact that Jesus is coming, but it is not for us to worry about the 'times or seasons.' Our job is the live in the light of the fact that He may be back at any moment, which is the same mindset John had in Revelation.
Amen! We should always be faithful, no matter what the political, economic, or physical state of our earth. I'm sure believers who lived during the Roman Empire, Middle Ages, Great Depression, WWI and WWII all had reasons to worry about the times and seasons. There is nothing new under the sun--it's just that we have more sophisticated media to give us instant updates.
and earthquakes in divers places
of the world; as, at Crete F14, and in divers cities in Asia F15, in the times of Nero: particularly the three cities of Phrygia, Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colosse; which were near to each other, and are all said to perish this way, in his reign F16;
``and Rome itself felt a tremor, in the reign of Galba F17.''
But then you must dismiss Christ's command to 'watch and if we 'are' to watch, then God has given us signs to look for.
Just because we do not know the day nor hour does not mean in the watching we will not see the signs of His comiing, which He gave to SHOW His coming is soon (birth pangs)
Mark 13 speaks to this in the parable of the Fig Tree.
Yet I DO agree, that we are to be about our Fathers business, and not focused only on the watching. It refers to paying attention or being alert, though the text does state alert to see Him when He is there, but that He is coming.
A hearty Amen.
I suspose my take on earthquakes in divers places may be strange to some of you. And some of you may want to rip it apart. But please read my post with a spiritual mind as mentionedi n Romans 8:6-7. I want to quote a few scriptures about the earthquakes in divers places:
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. The Lord also mentions this in Mark 13:8 and Luke 21:11
Let us go back to Genisis to begin to understand what the earth really is.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Isn’t the dust of the ground made of the earth?
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
If we are made of the dust of the earth we will return to it.
In 1st Corinthians Paul describes the inward and outward man, the outward man being earthly and the inward man being a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
So if man is made of the earth then I contend that earthquakes in divers places is men and women repenting. Follow me with the following verses:
1Ki 19:11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
He caused the earthquake but couldn’t have been in the earthquake because he does not dwell in the flesh of man. (see the verses that I quoted from 1st Corinthians)
1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
At the end of your trail of repentance how did he speak to you? Was it that small still voice? That is how he spoke to me.
How did the Lord visit you during your repentance?
Isa 29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
Was this not the same devouring fire that John spoke of before Jesus came to baptized?
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
It sure seems to me that earthquakes in divers plases is this old outward man quaking during a travail of repentance. Before you jump too hard I also believe that earthquakes in divers places is speaking naturally as well.
Sign, Sign, Everywhere a Sign - NOT
With apologies to the Five Man Electrical Band
I definitely go in this is not a sign category