Eastern Orthodox, Cult or Not...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Living_stone, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Living_stone

    Living_stone
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    I'm not seriously asking this question. But, the Catholics and the Orthodox are very similar in many respects on many issues, yet no one ever takes issue with the Orthodox...

    Why do you think that is?

    The Orthodox Church would still say that protestants had embraced heresy and left the true church with apostolic succession, which is why they've devolved into 3000 different denomenations and factions teaching truths at odds with eachother based upon each persons interpretation of scripture...
     
  2. BobRyan

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    Ok I agree "use the same rule of measure".

    Where is the Eastern Orthodox on the following --

    Pope infallible. Including "infallible extermination" Policies.

    Mary sinless like Christ - Queen of Heaven, Co-redemptrix?

    Bible burning.

    Inquisition. Councils making Degrees on "exterminating" those who oppose them.

    Presiding over the dark ages of mankind.

    Purgatory.

    Prayers to the dead

    Priest with "magic powers" to confect God - in the mass and not "losing those magic powers" when they go into apostacy.

    ...

    I am open to discussing these points in terms of the Eastern Orthodox church.
     
  3. Living_stone

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    I don't know what you mean by "infallible extermination" policies....

    They view him to be accoreded a greater honor than the other bishops, but no more authority generally. However their view on the bishops binding authority is pretty clearly the same.

    Both teach she is "mother of god" and "ever virgin". Queen of heaven is a biblical title showing honor to her as the mother of the king.

    Both believe in her intercessory power.

    They don't use titles like "co-redemptorix" but her position as the new eve, taught from the earliest times, clearly makes her a co-worker in a unique way with Christ in bringing about salvation.

    Similarly Eve was a co-worker with Adam, eating first and giving him the apple though sin still came through him.

    Neither church teaches 'bible burning'. That's just ignorant.

    I saw a really neat program on A&E a few months back called "The Myth of the SPanish Inquisition" that went deep into what the inquisition was, and what it wasn't. Most of what it is viewed as today is myth and propaganda.

    The orthodox church to my understanding has never had a formal "inquisition".

    In many ways, the Orthodox Church through Constantinople 'presided' over the 'dark ages' more than Rome. But here you are showing your ignorance of history. The 'dark ages' weren't nearly as 'dark' as you believe.

    Purgatory is the latin name for the state of being perfected after this life. It's implicit in Christianity, you just don't like it because it sounds too "Romish" for you.

    Yep.

    Your prejudice and bigotry is showing.

    It's not "magical powers". It's them fulfilling a Christ given sacrement though his powers.

    They don't "lose" their authority because once a priest, always a priest - though they will be judged more strictly, as will all teachers, as the scriptures say.

    I hope that helps.
     
  4. StefanM

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    I don't consider the RCC or Eastern Orthodoxy to be cults.
     
  5. Matt Black

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    Bob, the Orthodox believe in prayers to the dead, the veneration of Mary and are not 'Biblicists' like evangelicals but view the Bible through the lens of Tradition. They also believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, if that's what you mean by 'confecting Christ' (but wouldn't pin it down to transubstantiation)
     
  6. nate

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    No. The EOC is one of three (the only one) Churches that have kept the apostolic tradition through the years.
    In Christ,
    Nate
     
  7. Claudia_T

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    Apostolic Succession ---the true lineage

    There is only one true lineage given in the Bible, the Remnant people of God are those who keep His commandents. Any other claim of Apostolic Succession is false.

    "Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 12:1-3. If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:19.

    Why did God make His promise to the seed of Abraham? "Because that Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." Gen. 26:5.

    As I said, there is only one true lineage given in the Bible, the Remnant people of God are those who keep His commandents. Any other claim of Apostolic Succession is false.

    “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rv:12:17

    Jesus said to the Pharisees and Rulers, "if ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

    These words offended the Pharisees. The nation's long subjection to a foreign yoke, they disregarded, and angrily exclaimed, "We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest Thou, Ye shall be made free?" Jesus looked upon these men, the slaves of malice, whose thoughts were bent upon revenge, and sadly answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin (transgression of the 10 commandment Law) is the servant of sin." They were in the worst kind of bondage,--ruled by the spirit of evil.

    Every soul that refuses to give himself to God is under the control of another power. He is not his own. He may talk of freedom, but he is in the most abject slavery. He is not allowed to see the beauty of truth, for his mind is under the control of Satan. While he flatters himself that he is following the dictates of his own judgment, he obeys the will of the prince of darkness. Christ came to break the shackles of sin-slavery from the soul. "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" sets us "free from the law of sin and death." Rom. 8:2.

    The Pharisees had declared themselves the children of Abraham. Jesus told them that this claim could be established only by doing the works of Abraham. The true children of Abraham would live, as he did, a life of obedience to God. They would not try to kill One who was speaking the truth that was given Him from God. In plotting against Christ, the rabbis were not doing the works of Abraham. A mere lineal descent from Abraham was of no value. Without a spiritual connection with him, which would be manifested in possessing the same spirit, and doing the same works, they were not his children.

    This principle bears with equal weight upon a question that has long agitated the Christian world,--the question of apostolic succession. Descent from Abraham was proved, not by name and lineage, but by likeness of character. So the apostolic succession rests not upon the transmission of ecclesiastical authority, but upon spiritual relationship. A life actuated by the apostles' spirit, the belief and teaching of the truth they taught, this is the true evidence of apostolic succession. This is what constitutes men the successors of the first teachers of the gospel.

    Jesus denied that the Jews were children of Abraham. He said, "Ye do the deeds of your father." In mockery they answered, "We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God." These words, in allusion to the circumstances of His birth, were intended as a thrust against Christ in the presence of those who were beginning to believe on Him. Jesus gave no heed to the base insinuation, but said, "If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God."

    Their works testified of their relationship to him who was a liar and a murderer. "Ye are of your father the devil," said Jesus, "and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stood not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. . . . Because I say the truth, ye believe Me not." John 8:44, 45, R. V. The fact that Jesus spoke the truth, and that with certainty, was why He was not received by the Jewish leaders. It was the truth that offended these self-righteous men. The truth exposed the fallacy of error; it condemned their teaching and practice, and it was unwelcome. They would rather close their eyes to the truth than humble themselves to confess that they had been in error. They did not love the truth. They did not desire it, even though it was truth.

    Jesus informed the Jews that IT DID NOT MATTER WHAT THEIR LINEAGE WAS... as long as they were transgressing God's Law ... living in SIN... claiming to love God yet planning to sin and murder His Son, Jesus... they weren't any more the "children of Abraham" than were the heathen down the street! The Jews who rejected Christ, and ANYBODY WHO CLAIMS TO BE A CHRISTIAN TODAY that doesnt keep God's commandments, are NOT the children of Abraham! NOT AT ALL! They are NOT THE CHOSEN... they are NOT THE ELECT! They are lost sinners, just like anybody else who have refused to do what God clearly told them to do!

    1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    1Jn:3:10: In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Who are the children of Abraham? "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal. 3:29.

    1Cor:7:19: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." -In other words, to God, circumcision means nothing and uncircumcision means nothing, but what MATTERS is that you keep the commandments of God!

    I dont care if you claim to be "saved by grace" ... I dont care if you claim to be "the Chosen of God" ... I dont care if you are a Jew or a Gentile, I don't care if you are a Calvinist, I don't care if you are black or white, and I don't care if you are a Roman Catholic and believe there is some sort of "Apostolic Succession" that sets your Church denomination above all others, because EVERY MAN is measured by the exact same standard! "God is no respecter of persons" [Acts 10:34]. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is righteous, even as he IS righteous. [1Jn:3:7]

    Rev. 22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


    Claudia
     
  8. Claudia_T

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    These Churches that blatanly change the 10 Commandments and dont keep God's Law, as He gave it, yet claim to be of the "Apostolic Succession", arent any more of God's lineage than a doorknob. Thats just Bull-oney.

    for instance, you dont go around murdering a few million people in the Inquisition and then claim you are the apostolic succession, like Jesus told the Pharisees, you dont claim to be children of Abraham while secretly planning to kill God's Son.

    "If you were Abraham's seed you would do the works of Abraham". "You do the works of your father, the devil, he was a murderer from the beginning."

    Claudia
     
  9. Living_stone

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    Please don't just copy and paste. I've found this iterated in a couple spots.

    It seems to be from "the Desire of Ages", whatever that is.

    ...

    Ah... Ellen Gould White...SDA...

    Hence the rabid anti-catholicism.
     
  10. Living_stone

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    That's right. The Inquisition - over 400 years, claimed less than 5000 lives. The US kills more than that in a year. THey were killed for what ammounted to treason, and they were not killed by the church but by the state. Members of the clergy DID stand in as the inquisitors, but they were on the whole merciful. We even have records of people pleading heresy in secular courts so that they could be turned over to the ecclesiastical courts which would then show them mercy.

    Millions is a gross lie perpetuated because people want to believe it. Get the facts.

    Now, 5000 is still a lot, and a regretful thing to have happened. But again, the church didn't kill them. This is just one of many anti-catholic lies passed down through the ages.
     
  11. nate

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    Yes the SDA's on this forum are rabidly anti-Catholic.
     
  12. Claudia_T

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    Christ's idea of true lineage...


    Mt:12:50: For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
     
  13. JFox1

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    Ok, Claudia, which church do you think is the "true remnant?" A former co-worker told me that his church, the Philadelphia Church of God, is the "remnant." He believes in the teachings of Herbert Armstrong and Gerald Flurry.
     
  14. JFox1

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    The Eastern Orthodox don't have a Pope. The leaders are more localized, sometimes called "Metropolitans." The Eastern Orthodox didn't have an Inquisition. They don't believe in Purgatory. They do pray for the dead. They honor Mary and other saints. They have different saints than the Catholics do. For example, St. Francis of Assisi is not considered a saint by the Orthodox churches. They have traditions that are different from the Catholic Church; for instance, they have icons. I don't know what you mean by "magic powers."
     
  15. nate

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    No they consider Mary "Theoktos" and Ever Virgin but she is not Co-redemptrix and she had original sin. They deny Immaculate Conception.

    They never burned Bibles or exterminated anyone.
     
  16. BobRyan

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    quote:
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    Bible burning.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It is ignorant to turn a blind eye to historic fact. The RCC engaged in massive examples of Bible burning.

    OR are we going to "edit history" for the sake of this exercise?
     
  17. BobRyan

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Inquisition. Councils making Degrees on "exterminating" those who oppose them.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The A&E channel as a source for Christian teaching, doctrine OR history has never been a good idea when it comes to the dark ages or the RCC or Christianity.

    Try an actual historic source.

    In the meant time the current Pope HIMSELF admits to the slaughter of 25 million claiming that this record is missing by 2/3's the ACTUAL number slaughtered.


    The Catholic historian von Dollinger writes in The Pope and the Council,
    Consider the following news stories from the Vatican City.


    ============================================================

    They do have that going for them.
     
  18. Eliyahu

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    Returning back to OP title,

    Eastern Orthodox church didn't the followings:

    1) They didn't kill many Christian believers
    2) They didn't burn the Bibles
    3) They didn't establish Inquisition
    4) They don't have Pope
    5) They don't claim Papal Infallibility
    6) They didn't force Compulsory Celibacy
    7) They didn't invent Purgatory

    I am not sure they sacrifice every week for the sins as RC perform Mass.

    Do they exalt Mary as Queen of Heaven?
    I remember one guy from Russian Orthodox mentioning about Theotokos.

    The similarity between RC and Greek Orthodox may be the formalities and clergy system.
     
  19. Chemnitz

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    I find A&E almost as accurate as many of the anti-RCC "history" sites that have been posted on this board. There seems to be alot of sensationalism on both.
     
  20. Living_stone

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    This is cool - a radio-program on the spanish inquisition. It plays in Real Media. Only about 55 minutes long, it's interesting to get the Catholic take on the issue.

    (CLICK HERE)
     

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