Ecclesiastical separation applied selectively

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Paul33, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. Paul33

    Paul33
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    Squire closed a thread on the KJV and its use in fundamental churches.

    The issue was not translation. The issue was ecclesiastical separation. I'll ask the question a little differently.

    Why are some ecclesiastical compromises tolerated in the independent fundamental Baptist movement but others (apparent compromise) aren't?

    Hopefully Squire's prejudice won't shut this thread down.
     
  2. Shiloh

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    The KJV is not the issue on this board. The issue is separation. Most of these people call themselves christians and baptist to boot but will absolutely not separate from anything. They are supreme authorites on everything from global warming to the color of Balaams donkey. But you talk about separation and they will lock you down. Hey, it's their board....... [​IMG]
     
  3. Paul33

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    Shiloh,

    What are some things that you will separate from?

    My wife and I separated from birth control pills, specifically; and birth control in general.

    The fundamental Baptists I fellowship with think we have lost our marbles. Apparently separation from the Margaret Sanger induced birth control movement which came from her hatred for God is wrong!

    But embracing fellowship with like minded believers in Promise Keepers is a sin.

    Where do you stand and why?
     
  4. Shiloh

    Shiloh
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] Paul, bless your heart. Don't get hooked up with me. I'm separated from everything that's not nailed to the floor. My wife and I have eight children, all grown. All serving the Lord in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches across this country. Our oldest daughter and her husband and family are missionaries in Iceland with Points North Baptist Mission. I give the people on this board a FIT! There is only one thing the most of the people here are separated from and it's ME [​IMG] . I get accused of not giving them scripture but when I do they twist it to fit their liberal mold. You want Scripture, Isa.52:11, Jn.15:19, Eph.5:11, IIThess.3:6. That means to be different from the world. I preach against their smoking, drinking, ect. all on here..... a BAPTIST board. You would think they would love it? NOT!
     
  5. 4His_glory

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    I thought this was about ecclisiastical separation not personal.
     
  6. Rhetorician

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    I have known some IBFers that needed to be separated from their own "arrogance" and their own "self-righteousness!"

    Do those issues ever come into play in any of the so-called "separation" discussions?

    Probably NOT!

    Just wondering?

    sdg!

    rd
     
  7. EdSutton

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    In His grace,
    Ed
     
  8. Shiloh

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    Rhetorician......I am sorry you find me repulsive. I try to be as nice as I can when I preach about the effects of sin.
    4Hisglory......I am getting ready for the services tomorrow or I would take some time and explain to you the ramifications of IIThess.3:6.
     
  9. Rhetorician

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    Shiloh,

    There is a reason that I chose the handle "Rhetorician." I am able to say what I mean outright.

    I did not say that I found you "repulsive." That is an inference you made for yourself! I was speaking generically and you took it to yourself personally. That is unfortunate, b/c there was not any offense needed. It was only an observation that I have made over years and years of having been reared in and around the IFBers.

    To quote good old Bob Jones Sr:

    "When a rock is thrown among a pack of dogs--only the one who is hit yelps!"

    sdg!

    rd
     
  10. Petrel

    Petrel
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    ZING! [​IMG]
     
  11. gb93433

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    My athletic coaches did too. So, what makes your message different?

    So when you have 30 min. to one hour you spend your time on such temporal things? A man walking with God who even struggles with such things will quit things not good for himself.

    Every person I have discipled has quit various things too and have embraced Christ to tell the world about him while at the same time making disciples.
     
  12. Shiloh

    Shiloh
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    Rhetorician, I did not take your remark personally per say. I did take the remark as made toward anyone who took a stand against sin....or actually against anything on this board. I do however fit that category. I am not bothered by the foul comments made toward me on here. I realize I am amoung great odds :Dhere. This does not deter my aggressive, arrogant, self righteous what ever you want to call it preaching against sin! Paul told Timothy to preach the word! He was told to preach it when it was convenient and when it wasn't. So....as a preacher I guess that's what I'll do. I suppose that's hard for a guy still duped in the southern baptist convention to understand.
    [​IMG] zing [​IMG]
     
  13. Paul33

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    Back to the thread.

    Is is ecclesiastical compromise to use a translation of the bible that was produced under the "sponsorship" of King James and developed by the Church of England, the very church that persecuted our pilgrim forefathers.

    I would think that it is based on the acrimony Billy Graham has incured for his "compromise" of being sponsored by groups that included a few liberals/modernists.

    Now are these two issues the same? If they are, then the IFBer's need to put away their KJV Bibles. Right?
     
  14. PastorSBC1303

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    Paul, you have hit on something that had never occured to me before. I guess by their own standards IFBer's need to put away their KJV's.

    However, I am quite sure they will have their own way of getting around it to say that this is not the right move.
     
  15. Squire Robertsson

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    Okay, folks I am going to jump in here with my digital size nines.

    Remember the rubric of IFB takes in a wide range of men, organizations, movements and churches. Not all of these have the same origin. Some have their roots in the Southern Baptist Convention. Others trace their lineage back through the FBF to the CBA and thence to the NBC. Others go, still, through the GARBC to the NBC. Those are the main "bloodlines". No doubt there are IFBs who have still other origins.

    So, please do not paint the IFB as a monolithic group. Some of you quite correctly raise valid objections when writers voice obsolete hence invalid opinions about the Southern Baptist Convention.

    Are folks in the IFB movement inconsistent in their application of ecclesiastical separation? You betcha boots. Why? Because beyond certain clear points of Scripture, we are getting into matters of CAT 2.5 to CAT 3 truth. Many of us will agree on CAT 2 but with CAT 3 the degree of disagreement increases.
     
  16. Rhetorician

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    Squire,

    I hate to show my ignorance more than usual, but could you help a fellow out.

    Please define "Cat 2.5" & "Cat 3" truth for us uninitiated.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  17. Squire Robertsson

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    Please see Categories of Truth 2004 at the top of this Forum.

    By CAT 2.5, I mean a position based on fairly simple logic but tending towards informed/uninformed opinion. How to deal with Billy Graham is an example of a 2.5 that quickly comes to my mind. However as a CAT 2 truth, your mileage may vary.
     
  18. shannonL

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    Shiloh,

    The director of Points North Mission is a fellow by the name of Gary Forney.
    Gary was trained for the ministry several years ago by my wife's grandfather. His name is
    Clyde Gault. He is now 88yrs old. He has been a IFB his entire life. Mr. Forney was trained by him in a little Bible institue that Grand-pap Gault started back in the 60's.
    Anyway if most people knew how (over supported ) Mr.Forney was they would never give another dime to his ministry or his mission.
    I'm sure your son is a well meaning, honest fellow who loves the Lord. Yet the director of his mission is one of the best at crying the "poor mouth" when he is very, very well supported.
    BTW if Mr. Forney holds to KJVOism it sure isn't because he learned it from my wife's grand father.
    He is a true fundamentalist who graduated with honors from Practical Bible Training School back in the 30's up in Bingamton, NY. While Mr. Gault is KJV preferred he is by no means KJVO. He has been around almost since fundamentalism started.
    He can tell stories about when the GARBC formed. When the American Baptist went south etc...
    It is wild he is a walking history book when it comes to the early,glory days of modern day fundamentalism.
    Anyway its a small world I guess. My wife is grandaughter of the gentleman that trained the man that is the director of the mission board your son is with.
    BTW, If your up in Maine do you know a fellow named Ernie Gault? He is pastor of Twin Mountain Baptist Ch. over in Vermont. He is my wife's grandfather's nephew. Bro. Gault has been up there for about 30-35yrs. I know alot of IFB know each other way up there just wondering if you knew him?
     
  19. EdSutton

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    Wouldn't categories such as Cat.2 and Cat. 2.5 Truths be arbitrary at best?
    Ed
     
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Well said, Squire. Frankly, this looks like one more thread designed to bash the IFB movement. To me it's sad. Seems like folks who say they are conservative in theology would have something better to do on the BB--maybe bashing liberals, or evangelicals who will cooperate with anybody, or Fuller Seminary with it's Biblical errantism. Can we spell "hobby horse?" :rolleyes:
     

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