Economic Treason

Nor does he really care about reforming social security, or welfare, or any of the other social programs. ACtually, I think he would like to reform social security to privatize it.

But you are willing to work in the currently available system to retard the downward progress of these social programs (or regress as it may be). But when it comes to the presidency, you aren't willing to work with in the currently available system to retard the downward progres (or regress). You have an all or nothing proposition.

How is that different?

But you said even if you didn't have options, you wouldn't vote for Bush. So this seems to be either a non-issue, or an inconsistency in your argument.

 

So far, Ken has always told the truth here. And that's a much better thing then being consistent.

Any intelligent person will change his opinion as facts indicate.

 

I agree Galatian with your last statement.

My question Ken was just trying to understand your thinking. I am not being accusatory in the least. It just jumped out at me that the reason your reject from me, is the same reason you accept from yourself on another topic. There are worse traits than inconsistent I supposed. And we are all inconsistent in some things. I was just trying to understand a little bit about your thinking.

 

I wholeheartedly agree here!

I wholeheartedly DISAGREE here. This domino affect has been argued for years and economic history has proven it to be false. There has not been a direct correlation between raising the minimum wage and increases in the cost of living.

And besides that, it is sub-human to refuse to pay a man who works less than enough money to live on. Do I really deserve to be paid $375,000 a year when the men who picked the vegetables that I bought in store can not afford a home with running water?

I live in a very affluent community and the recent recession did not hurt us. Nonetheless, when a company here announced that they had 10 positions to fill that paid good wages, more than 3,000 people applied for those 10 jobs. 2,990 of those people continued to be either unemployed or work for low wages. Several of my neighbors paid more than $10,000,000 for their homes and yet they have illegal domestic help that they pay only $4 or $5 an hour with no benefits package. They could easily afford to hire American citizens and pay them $15 - $20 an hour plus a very generous benefits package without any decrease at all in their own standard of living, but they wouldn’t think of it.

Across town there are many fast food restaurants that pay their employees the minimum legal wage without any health insurance. By increasing the cost of a hamburger by just $25 cents they could pay their employees twice the minimum wage and give them heath insurance. If only one of these restaurants did this, it would hurt their business, but if by law they were all forced to do this, their businesses would hugely profit because their hamburgers, although slightly more expensive, would be much more affordable to very many people. And not only that, I could enjoy my hamburger without having to weep over the poverty of those who prepared it more me.

I wish that I would have gotten a bigger tax cut so that I could afford to help more people, but at $375,000 a year I am in too low of an income bracket to have gotten a significant tax cut. One of my wealthy neighbors, however, bought a $458,000 yacht built overseas with his tax cut—I suppose that would also be nice.

But I suppose that I should enjoy my Mercedes Benz automobiles and my boat and not worry about those who have to walk to work wearing shoes and clothes that they waited in line for at the rescue mission on the other side of town. Certainly Jesus would not have let things like that bother him.

 

Just baiting the trap, I think.

 

PL, The FTAA has not been passed - yet - but it will soon - just as soon as Bush is re-elected or Kerry is elected. You see, both Bush and Kerry are globalists, (and so are most members of Congress, unfortunately, as proven by the passage of NAFTA) they just package their position in different ways.

Since you seem to take the globalist position, as well, posting these links probably won't change your mind, but it will provide some interesting facts for you (and others) to consider.

My position is that globalism is socialism at the root of it since both globalism and socialism have the same objective - to redistribute wealth.

http://www.stoptheftaa.org/default.html

http://www.citizen.org/trade/ftaa/

 

Jesus said the poor would always be with us. And He became poor.

Redistribution of wealth destroys the middle class - not the wealthy. Redistribution of wealth just increases the population of the poor.

NAFTA put American farmers out of work and caused some of them to lose their farms (that had been owned by their families for generations). That increased the number of people on unemployment and social programs. This is just one example of how NAFTA did not benefit Americans. Those who gained from NAFTA are the rich and powerful - not the middle class. And certainly not the poor.

 

Since I don't know what the "Globalist position" is, I don't know whether I am taking it or not. I am taking what I believe to be the common sense position. We live in a global economy whether we like it or not. And we have to do business in a global economy.

 

There are still to many American farmers which is why price ssupports for milk were just raised and poor people are paying more to buy milk from rich farm corps.

 

Luke 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

I guess that Jesus was just trying to "increase the population of the poor."

 

Well, bill, do you really want your kids or grandkids drinking milk from Bolivia or Columbia?

You really want to leave them open to diseases? Like mad cow.

Do you really think third world countries' standards of production and cleanliness and feed for cattle are up to par with American dairy farmers? I may be living under a delusion about the effectiveness of the USDA but I still like it stamped on my eggs and milk.

If you think the American dairy farmer is getting rich, I suggest you do a little more research. What is happening in all reality with all of this is that mega-corporations are the ones to profit from all of these trade agreements, not American farmers, and it is certainly not raising the standard of living in the third world countries. That's the lie that has been promoted by Corporate America and ya'll are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker while your American citizen neighbors go belly up. Socialism is alive and well in America.

PS: Not to mention that when you buy lettuce or broccoli, etc. from Mexico, they use human waste as fertilizer down there. Nice, huh? Ever hear of Montezuma's revenge? Well, all of this is over the border so nothing can be done about it on this end. I bet the families of loved ones who died from hepatitis ingested from Mexican green onions not long ago, aren't too keen on NAFTA about now.

 

The FTAA will subvert the sovereignty of the USA, putting power that belongs to the American people into the hands of unelected, often non-American bureaucrats.

It is not "free trade"...it is the regulation of trade by those who have no right to regulate it, and who will likely regulate to the benefit of the "big boys" who set them up.

 

Did he say not to do this? Anser: No.

 

But He endorsed the Ten Commandments, the eighth of which prohibits stealing.

I could break into your house, steal your money, and give it to someone. Or, I could obtain government power, and take it from your paycheck and give it to somebody. Either way, your property has been taken and given to someone else.

That is not charity, it is theft.

 

If Christians would only obey Jesus voluntarily, the barbarians and heathen would not have to pass laws to force them to do so.

Luke 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

How many coats do you have in your closets?

 

Craig, I know of no Christian who would not voluntarily help a hungry or naked neighbor. Actually, I can't think of any non-Christians who wouldn't, either.

As to your question, I have lots of coats in my closet. Like most Americans, I have been truly blessed.

 

The economy is not political, it is spiritual. We have had many years of both good and bad economy under both republican and democrats. Just look at the severe recession towards the end of Clinton's term, for example.

I would say that the United States is probably the most blessed nation on earth because we are the most Christian nation on earth, and the one nation willing to follow (aka obey) God's leading. Our economy benefits more from the blessing incurred by obedience to God as a nation than as the political acts of any politician.

We have only to look at the example of Israel in the Old Testament to see the spiritual truth of this. When they had godly leaders, they were blessed, when they had ungodly leaders things went badly for them.

Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[ October 05, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Gup20 ]