Ecumenism

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by mcneely, Apr 30, 2006.

  1. mcneely

    mcneely
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    It's becoming a popular topic in the Christian world. Some think the movement is serving to usher in the "One world religion" as spoken about in Revelation. Others think it's a wonderful new oppertunity for Christians to come together in love and unity.

    But it's not just Catholic anymore. Even evangelicals like Ted Haggard of the NAE are speaking out on how to effectively bridge the gaps between the four main branches (www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/011/20.41.html) Is this the beginning of the end? Or just a new beginning?
     
  2. SpiritualMadMan

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    If we all just become one big melting pot we will inevitably sink to the lowest common denominator...

    Diversity is good only so long as it remains diverse...

    If there were no Calvinists the extreme Armenians would reign supreme...

    If there were no Armenians the Hyper-Calvinists would reign supreme...

    There would be no challenges to what we believe or how we practice what we say we believe...

    It is these challenges which keep us strong in our faiths...

    I don't like Ecumenism in that it seems to want to round off too many edges... [​IMG]

    (If we don't rub each other from time to time where will the "As Iron Sharpens Iron", be?)

    I Like sharing and fellowshipping with other sects and Faiths that have Jesus (the Real Jesus) in their core doctrines...

    But, I am always going to be basically Armenian in my belief system. Even though I seem to have far more in common with my Baptist Brothers and Sisters than some of my Pentecostal peers... :D

    Mike Sr.
     
  3. Claudia_T

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    Ecumenism is the beginning of the end.

    Revelation 17:
    13: These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

    The common denominator is going to be Sunday Worship. The Roman Catholic Church has already called for legislation of the Sunday Law.

    "Protest-ants" are going along with the Catholic Church, thinking it would be a good idea to do this "To get America back to God"

    Make no mistake about it, this is the underlying motivation Satan has for this Ecumenical Movement.

    Slowly erode the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism more and more and emphasis on the themes in common.

    Unfortunately many Protestants will not wake up to the fact that they are being used until it is too late to turn back.

    Claudia
     
  4. Claudia_T

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    This is what is going to happen, and is in the works right now with this Ecumenical Movement...


    "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Rev. 17:12, 13. As we approach the last crisis, it is of vital moment that harmony and unity exist among the Lord's instrumentalities. The world is filled with storm and war and variance. Yet under one head--the papal power--the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses.

    What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath.

    "These have one mind." There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan's forces. "And shall give their power and strength unto the beast." Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanism.

    In the warfare to be waged in the last days there will be united, in opposition to God's people, all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah. In this warfare the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will be the great point at issue; for in the Sabbath commandment the great Lawgiver identifies Himself as the Creator of the heavens and the earth.

    Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.

    I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. Rev. 13:3. In homage to the Papacy the United States will not be alone. The influence of Rome in the countries that once acknowledged her dominion, is still far from being destroyed.

    In the last conflict the Sabbath will be the special point of controversy throughout all Christendom. Secular rulers and religious leaders will unite to enforce the observance of the Sunday; and as milder measures fail, the most oppressive laws will be enacted. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the land ought not to be tolerated. . . . Romanism in the Old World, and apostate Protestantism in the New, will pursue a similar course toward those who honor the divine precepts.

    The so-called Christian world is to be the theater of great and decisive actions. Men in authority will enact laws controlling the conscience, after the example of the Papacy. Babylon will make all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Every nation will be involved. [Rev. 18:3-7 quoted.]

    The warning of the third angel [of Revelation 14] . . . is represented in the prophecy as being proclaimed with a loud voice, by an angel flying in the midst of heaven; and it will command the attention of the world.

    In the issue of the contest all Christendom will be divided into two great classes--those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark. Although church and state will unite their power to compel "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond" (Revelation 13:16), to receive "the mark of the beast," yet the people of God will not receive it. The prophet of Patmos beholds "them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God" and singing the song of Moses and the Lamb. Revelation 15:2, 3.

    And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev. 18:4. In the last work for the warning of the world, two distinct calls are made to the churches. The second angel's message is, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." And in the loud cry of the third angel's message a voice is heard from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

    As God called the children of Israel out of Egypt, that they might keep His Sabbath, so He calls His people out of Babylon, that they may not worship the beast or his image. . . .

    After the truth has been proclaimed as a witness to all nations, every conceivable power of evil will be set in operation, and minds will be confused by many voices crying, "Lo, here is Christ, Lo, He is there. This is the truth, I have the message from God, He has sent me with great light." Then there will be a removing of the landmarks, and an attempt to tear down the pillars of our faith. A more decided effort will be made to exalt the false sabbath, and to cast contempt upon God Himself by supplanting the day He has blessed and sanctified. This false sabbath is to be enforced by an oppressive law. . . . But while Satan works with his lying wonders, the time will be fulfilled foretold in the Revelation, and the mighty angel that shall lighten the earth with his glory, will proclaim the fall of Babylon, and call upon God's people to forsake her.

    When do her sins reach unto heaven? When the law of God is finally made void by legislation. Then the extremity of God's people is His opportunity to show who is the governor of heaven and earth. As a Satanic power is stirring up the elements from beneath, God will send light and power to His people, that the message of truth may be proclaimed to all the world.

    And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Rev. 16:13, 14. By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation [the United States] will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near.

    Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience. . . .

    Papists, Protestants, and worldling will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement for the conversion of the world and the ushering in of the long-expected millennium.

    When our nation [the United States] shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery; it will be nothing else than giving life to the tyranny which has long been eagerly watching its opportunity to spring again into active despotism.

    And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast. Rev. 13:4.

    "He had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." Though professing to be followers of the Lamb of God, men become imbued with the spirit of the dragon. They profess to be meek and humble but they speak and legislate with the spirit of Satan, showing by their actions that they are the opposite of what they profess to be. This lamb-like power unites with the dragon in making war upon those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. And Satan unites with Protestants and Papists, acting in consort with them as the god of this world, dictating to men as if they were the subjects of his kingdom, to be handled and governed and controlled as he pleases. If men will not agree to trample under foot the commandments of God, the spirit of the dragon is revealed. They are imprisoned, brought before councils, and fined. "He causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads." "He had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." Thus Satan usurps the prerogatives of Jehovah. The man of sin sits in the seat of God, proclaiming himself to be God, and acting above God.

    There is a marked contrast between those who bear the seal of God and those who worship the beast and his image. The Lord's faithful servants will receive the bitterest persecution from false teachers, who will not hear the word of God, and who prepare stumbling blocks to put in the way of those who would hear. But God's people are not to fear. Satan cannot go beyond his limit. The Lord will be the defense of His people. He regards the injury done to His servants for the truth's sake as done to Himself. When the last decision has been made, when all have taken sides, either for Christ and the commandments or for the great apostate, God will arise in His power, and the mouths of those who have blasphemed against Him will be forever stopped. Every opposing power will receive its punishment." -E.G. White, Maranatha, page 187
     
  5. SpyHunter

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    The only response I have to that...comment...is this:

    Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
    19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

    I advise caution.

    SpyHunter
     
  6. JFox1

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    My denomination's (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) idea of being ecumenical is having talks with ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America). LOL!! ;)
     
  7. SpyHunter

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    Isn't that special...
     
  8. tragic_pizza

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    Actually, if one defines "ecumenism" as churches of differinf denominations communicating together, working together, worshipping tovether, etc., it is most decidedly not the beginning of the end; it's John 17.
     
  9. Eliyahu

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    Ecumenical Movement is the way of Inorganic growth of the Great Harlot, integrating various human religions even including Islam and Buddhism. All the world will be united against God and Christ, and His people ( Psalm 2:2)

    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
     
  10. SpyHunter

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    Eliyahu, I think you're confusing Postmodern Ecumenism with Christian Ecumenism.
    The former pleads the creed: "All paths lead to God" or "There are many paths up the mountain."
    The latter says:
    Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling,
    5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all.

    I agree that we should resist the first but we should also welcome the second.

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  11. SpyHunter

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    Double-posted on me...again...
     
  12. Eliyahu

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    I understand the goodwill of your points. However, no human beings can do it until the Lord comes again.

    If any human beings try to get united, it will be another Babel Tower. History tells us such tragedy and we know human beings have been always wicked especialy when they are united.
     
  13. SpyHunter

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    Eliyahu, division is not something inherent to the Church. I agree that it is in the Lord that we find the fullness of unity, and that will not be ultimately realized unto He returns. But nonetheless-- we are called, as brethren, to love one another. Jesus did not put an appendex in that limiting it to those of your church or your denomination. Jesus even said to love your enemies; how crazy was that? :)
    I guess I'm saying that we as human beings are not trying to "get together" under the banner of human endeavoring, but rather as sons and daughters of the Living Most High gathering unto Him and not to our respective "camps" of doctrinal positions and preferences. Just a thought. ;)

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  14. Eliyahu

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    Then are they intending to get together according to the Bible teachings?
    For example will they set up some basic doctrines which outline the principle of gathering first?
    What are the basic doctrines which they have endeavored so far?

    Will they allow any statues?
    What about Baptism?
    What are the requirements of Salvation?
    What are the church organization when Holy Spirit instruct the individual church as in Acts 13:2.
    Do they all believe in the Second coming of Jesus?
    Do they agree that the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ is sufficient and complete Once for All?

    If they agree with the Basic Doctrines of the Belief, then many people may join there. But so far there has been no agreement and the unity sounds like a lip service.

    However, I have this concept in my mind.
    I would call Heavenly Universal Assembly which embraces all the Born-Again Believers in Jesus Christ, either dead( sleeping) or living throughout the world, which was formed by the broken body and the shed blood of Jesus, regardless of any denominations, which is invisible.

    Therefore when I found someone is truly born again in Christ, I respect certain difference of belief and treat the person as a brother or a sister even though they are in different denominations.
    This might be the one mind until He comes.
     
  15. Claudia_T

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    Anybody heard of the World Parliament of Religions?

    I dont even think they much care if you are of the Christian persuasion or not anymore.


    Claudia
     
  16. Claudia_T

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    I think you havent read up much on whats really going on with the ecumenical movement. Its nice to wish things were a certain way but the reality of the situation is quite different.

    The idea is to unite on things in common, water down the truths of the Bible, and then to turn around and persecute those who are going to refuse to go along with the whole thing.


    Claudia
     
  17. SpyHunter

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    Claudia, again, I think you are confusing two different things-- Postmodern Ecumenism and Christian Ecumenism. I'll put it in different terms. There is a non-Christian ecumenical movement to combine all world religions; that is not what I was endorsing.
    I was endorsing unity within the Church, where Christianity has united under the single banner of Christ and Christ alone. I can understand hesitation about "false brethren" trying to pervert the direction of such a thing to their own ends, but Christ said if He is lifted up then all the world will be drawn unto Him.
    So, I say to you, if you sincerely oppose such Christian unity as described above, then I think you better do a heart check and see just who it is you are really serving here.

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  18. Claudia_T

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    Whether all are Christian or not...


    The ecumenical movement downplays doctrinal purity
    and refuses to practice biblical separation.

    The Bible teaching of separation forbids God's people from fellowshipping with error (Romans 16:17-18; II Corinthians 6:14-18; 11:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9; Ephesians 4:14-15; 5:11; Philippians 3:1-2; Colossians 2:8; II Thessalonians 3:6; I Timothy 1:3; 6:3-5; 6:20-21; II Timothy 2:16-21; 3:5,13; Titus 1:10-14; 3:9-11; II Peter 2:1-3; 3:17; 2 John 7-11; Jude 3; Revelation 2:2,6,14-16,20-23; 18:4).


    Claudia
     
  19. SpyHunter

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    I like your thinking, Eliyahu. That is certainly along the lines of what I had in mind; certainly not another earthly institution. *shudders*

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  20. mcneely

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    This is only semi-ontopic, so bear with me. [​IMG]
    Here is something that happened to me:

    Everyone sees the Religion of Islam on the news being portrayed as a violent, radical, evil faith that is shared almost exclusively by fanatical terrorists, and most of us in the U.S. adopt this picture of Islam. I certainly did.
    Anyway, the other night, I took my wife to the hospital. She is 11 weeks pregnant, and it is our first, and we had a scare concerning the baby. In the E.R., as we were praying and crying in one of the exam rooms, we were suddenly visited by a middle Eastern Doctor. He calmly explained to us that they were going to run some tests to check on everything. As he began to leave the room, he saw how upset my wife was. He stopped, closed the door, and sat down beside her. And then he said "I understand you are scared. You must trust in the almighty. I will be praying for you. Don't be scared."

    I work at this same hospital, and happen to know that the Doctor is a devout Muslim. When he said this, I knew by "almighty", he meant Allah. Instead of being put off, or sickened by his statements, or trying to evangelize him, I found comfort in what he said. Since that night, I have looked at Muslims in an entirely different way. And while I have no desire to convert to Islam, or advocate such, my prejiduces (spiritual) have dissappeared. And I always think back to when Jesus healed the servant of the Roman centurion. He was a pagan, an idol worshipper, and yet Jesus chose to show him compassion, and love.

    This, I believe, is the true message of Ecuminism. Not to make a big religious "melting pot", but to show love and compassion, and pray for each other. Reguardless of religious affiliation.

    ---Justin
     

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