Elaborate churches

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by av1611jim, Feb 11, 2005.

  1. av1611jim

    av1611jim
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    Check this out!

    www.prestonwood.org

    3/4 of the way down the page you can take a virtual tour of the place. Please do so before commenting, OK?

    I would like to start a discussion about this kind of waste of God's money.
    In another thread a fellow Baptist posted this website as a response to a request for places to visit. I went to the link, and was ASTOUNDED!

    How on earth can this kind of thing be justified?

    Comments?

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  2. menageriekeeper

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    Wow, are you sure thats not Disney World?

    Of course, you know they always build things bigger in Texas! :eek:

    No clue how they could justify the expense of the thing. I guess a lot would depend on just where and how they came by the money.

    If a bunch of their rich oilmen members decided that this is what they wanted and payed for it as an extra gift(as in not their tithes), then I guess that it is their money and they "can spend it as they please". This was my grandmothers reply any time one of her kids questioned how much money she gave to various causes.
     
  3. Ben W

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    Maybe Martin Luther was onto something when he said that churches should not include "Worship Aides" as a part of their furnishings? Hence why Lutheran Congregations tend to favour a simpler place of worship.
     
  4. rlvaughn

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    Jim, I didn't look at all of it, because it's a little too much for my computer (takes forever to load). But "Main Street Cafe" has sent me to the fridge looking for something to eat!

    I suspect that the church will justify their extravagance by saying that all such expenses are part of their ministry. I don't agree, but that is the usual thing that I hear.
     
  5. mioque

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    Looks impressive, allthough much more suitable for holding conventions than for being used as a church.

    "How on earth can this kind of thing be justified?"
    "
    Maybe that's the wrong question, the right one being: "Why would a congregation want one of these?"

    "Maybe Martin Luther was onto something when he said that churches should not include "Worship Aides" as a part of their furnishings?"
    "
    Speaking as a former child who has been bored to tears by many a churchservice. Good art in a worship hall is often a blessing, it gives you something to look at while you wait for the droning to stop. [​IMG]
     
  6. PastorSBC1303

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    I guess my question would be where do we draw the line as what is too much?
     
  7. gb93433

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    How about the tabernacle in the OT?
     
  8. Soulman

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    Depending on the membership I could see the auditorium. If they truly have a 4-5,000 membership then they would need a compound of sorts with school and all.

    When our Lord was here he fed 5,000 outside. I don't recall him even having a bedroom.

    I do think modesty is of the Lord. Have what you need to get the job done, but keep it simple and inexpensive as to use as much money as possible getting the word out.

    Flash and pizazz is of the devil. When the Lord does something wonderful most may not even know it.
     
  9. av1611jim

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    Well thank you all for your input so far.
    I am pleased to see I am not alone in my shock and dismay at this thing.

    Question:
    Are there other monstrosities out there claiming to be Baptist? We can IMMEDIATELY disqualify ol' Robert Schuller"s glass thingy-ma-jig in So. Cal, OK? I am talking about Baptsits.

    I really see no comparison between this abomination and the Tabernacle in the OT.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  10. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Read about all the finery and extravagance that the tabernacle was constructed from. Gold?

    Just a glimpse from Ex. 25:11-18, ""You shall overlay it with pure gold, inside and out you shall overlay it, and you shall make a gold molding around it. "You shall cast four gold rings for it and fasten them on its four feet, and two rings shall be on one side of it and two rings on the other side of it. "You shall make poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. "You shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, to carry the ark with them. "The poles shall remain in the rings of the ark; they shall not be removed from it. "You shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you. "You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold, two and a half cubits long and one and a half cubits wide. "you shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat.
     
  11. gb93433

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    Better sell your home and move to Ethiopia or Sudan. Because you are extrememly extravagant compared to them. Just think of what a few hundred dollars would do over there.

    I guess Abraham's wealth was of the devil too?
     
  12. av1611jim

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    Better sell your home and move to Ethiopia or Sudan. Because you are extrememly extravagant compared to them. Just think of what a few hundred dollars would do over there.

    I guess Abraham's wealth was of the devil too?
    </font>[/QUOTE]__________________________________________________

    You comment is very telling. "Just think of what a few hundred dollars would do over there."

    And THAT is exactly my point. WE are not Israel. WE are not The Old Testamant. WE are not directed to build such mostrosities. WE are commanded to GO into ALL the world. That takes money these days to do it. I think it was SOMEBODY who said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God." Therefore, I submit that this extravagance is not of God and is of the devil. I agree with Soulman.
    There is absolutely no excuse for this wasteful monument building program. And that is just what it is. A monument to a man. The man's name is the name of this pastor. (I won't name him here) and the draw is not Jesus. It is Josh McDowell.

    SURPRISE ! Yep! ol' Josh is a member at this place. Do ya' s'pose that book royalties funds this place? Could be. Could be.

    2 + 2 = 4

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  13. Soulman

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    Quote:Better sell your home and move to Ethiopia or Sudan. Because you are extrememly extravagant compared to them.

    What I am saying is that the devil is a showman. When he heals and does miricles he does in before alot of people.

    Jesus often does miricles in a way that multitudes don't see. He doesn't need an audience.

    We are blessed in this country and don't live in Ethiopia. God wants us to have what we need to serve Him. Not everything we want to serve ourselves.
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    This kind of thing REALLY irks me. I know MANY missionaries who are being told that there is no missions money, yet the churches are meeting in places no too different than what has been posted here.

    Is all that stuff needed to worship the Lord? All of the scriptures to remind us that God uses the base things of the world, etc say the opposite. Every part of the tabernacle pointed to Christ, there was a purpose behind it all. What is the purpose in this kind of show?
     
  15. Pete

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    "Total Membership: 23,017" I guess they have to put them somewhere... :rolleyes:

    I don't think I could ever join a "Mega-Church". To me most of them seem to have a "tear it down and build a bigger one" mentality, usually brought on by "blab it and grab it" prosperity teachers.

    Reading further through the history section of their site:

    $36,000,000 divided by 20,000 members = $1,800 each...I am sure they could have found a more productive use for the money...Then again if it brings together that many people who can then channel their combined efforts around...I guess it's just wait and see.

    To continue above quote from their site where I left off:

    Amen, may God bless whatever they do to spread the Gospel.
     
  16. mioque

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    "I could see the auditorium. If they truly have a 4-5,000 membership then they would need a compound of sorts"
    "
    An auditorium of that scale can actually be harmful to a church that does not have a membership to match. Instead of supplying room for growth it can emotionally isolate the membership from eachother.

    "Better sell your home and move to Ethiopia or Sudan. Because you are extrememly extravagant compared to them. "
    "
    Ethiopia has a couple of churches that are way more extravagant than Prestonwood, or even that crystal cathedral thingie. On the other hand they actually look like CHURCHES instead of convention centres.
    http://www.stat.duke.edu/~ervance/Greatphotos/Ethiopia/3071-stgeorgechurch.jpg
    http://www.farhorizon.com/Africa/images-ethiopia/Church_of_St_Michaels_lg.jpg
    http://uk.geocities.com/jamjamdave25/photos/new10.jpg
     
  17. Gib

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    It's not a just a mega church, but a mega Christian sought community. Maybe good intentions gone overboard.
     
  18. blackbird

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    Right you are, Gib---ole buddy, ole pal!!

    All of the "hoop-la" about mega buildings---have been going on for centuries

    but

    answer the following questions

    1) What's gonna happen when the demographics change---and don't say that it can't happen---it has happened---and there the empty building will be---that realitor's can't "dump" for a song!!!

    2) What's gonna happen when the particular pastor leaves---and the search committe "messes up" and gets a liberal or some dictator type and the members go to acting like spooked cattle?

    3) Earlier in the tread here--someone mentioned the OT Tabernacle---yes, elaborate on the inside---but outwardly---what was the exterior constructed of??? Goat skins and scraggly ole boards!! Anybody with any theological study under his belt can tell you that the Tabernacle was to be a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ---who "hath no form nor comeliness that we should be attracted to Him."---Outwardly, not much to look at---but inwardly---He is Heaven's Beauty!!! Flawless!!

    But the way we look at buildings nowadays---we are led to believe that "if we don't give them a nice building they won't come" mentality-----but you call the majority of these mega church members to "meet the pastor under a shade tree in the remote reaches of Bangladesh" where there's nothin' but Flies and things that creep around on the ground----the majority of the mega members will "BALK" at the opportunity to open his Bible in a wasteland like that!!!
     
  19. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    :eek: This kind of thing always makes me a bit dizzy.The nation of Israel was always trying to build bigger and more elaborate temples,but did it make them more spiritual or humble or get them any closer to God?.....absolutely NOT.It always scares me when a church embarks on a "building program".I'm not saying expanding facilities is wrong if the membership is growing and doesn't have enough room for preaching or teaching.Growth in a fellowship is good and you do need enough seats to accomodate the folks.It's just that many times "PRIDE" can creep in and that can get out of hand and cause some pastors/congregations to think they "need" frills that the church could do without...and put the money to better use.There is simply NO CALL or even a hint of it in the New Testament for building these "gilded palaces" that many churches feel lead to erect these days.Our purpose is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world.There are missionaries and struggling brethren both at home and abroad struggling to do the work of the ministry while living at or below the poverty level while many of us sit here at home and attend our lavish churches in apparent unconcern.In New Testament times(which we are STILL IN)the focus was on small yet spiritual assemblies of believers who visited house to house and made distribution of their money and material goods to see to each others needs and pray one with another that the body of Christ might be edified and built up.If the church of today would lose it's "self-centered" focus and return to this model then I submit that we could possibly see REVIVAL break out and many more souls saved and discipled.Many lost people today(my own lost brother included) think the "church" to be just a big MONEY GRUBBING SCAM....and these elaborate MONUMENTS many feel compelled to build do nothing but reinforce that idea.I say...build if you have to...BUT....make the buildings versatile and simple and seek for ways to spend the money that would care for the needs of the struggling saints among you and the direct spread of the Gospel.Building these gilded edifaces is only going to give the devil and his crowd a fancy place to have church(or whatever)after the TRUE BELIEVERS are caught away at the rapture.WHY would we want to do that?What a WASTE.JMO

    Greg Sr. [​IMG] :rolleyes:
     
  20. PastorSBC1303

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    Good intentions gone overboard is right on the mark!
     

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