Election In Action

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    There are those on here who say that the doctrine of Election is a Calvanist Doctrine that goes under the heading of Unconditional Election. Will I convince anyone by scriptures who does not believe in Election that it is a Bibical and not a Calvanist one. For the record I am not of the Calvanistic brethren even though I belief in TULIP!... So where do we go to see Election In Action? The only place where we can see there is no human intervention. There is no preacher to preach the word of God that those hearing might believe. There is no altar call. There is no baptism. The is no human intervention at all. If you can tell me why what one man did and the other one didn't I and others of our belief in The Doctrine of Election want to know. We all want to know the truth. See Election action. Brethren... TO THE CROSS!. Matthew 27:38 Then there were two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, the other on the left. 39: And they that passed by reviled him., wagging their heads. 40: And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. 41: Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders , said, 42: He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him come down from the cross, and we will believe him. 43: He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said I am the Son of God. 44: The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth. Keep this scripture in mind John 6:37 because a change is about to happen without the intervention of man. Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him saying, if thou be the Christ, save thyself and us. According to Matthew they both did the same thing. Here comes the change according to John 6:37. 40: But the other answering him rebuked him saying, Dost thou not fear God seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41: And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man has done nothing amiss. Brethren Oh how I love this part Election In Action. 42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43: and Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Now my question to those who do not believe in Election is this, seeing there was no intervention to save the one. If God loves everybody equally and there is no election why did not God convert the other this why wasn't he also given a chance to go to paradise. Was it not according to John 6:37 that the other thief did not belong to Jesus? So you brethren who do not believe in Election explain it plainly to those of us who do. To me the doctrine of Election is crystal clear and Gods revealed truth.
     
    #1 tyndale1946, Aug 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2014
  2. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody
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    Without being mean, you're saying that Christ dying meekly on the cross without fighting back or cursing his killers is not someone preaching? It's not a stretch to say that the thief, knowing the agony of Christ (as he himself was being crucified) would be impressed by our Lord's behaviour. He had some time to think, since he was just hanging around. He knew who Christ claimed to be. And he saw how Christ was forgiving those around him.

    Simply put, he was definitely being preached to.
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    So you are saying some how Jesus influenced his decision? And therefore coming to Jesus is a decision thing? I am going to paradise because of a decision I made. Just as the one thief did and other didn't. I made a choice ergo by the choice I made puts election in action. Therefore my Salvation is in my hands? Sorry I cannot believe what I see election taught in the scriptures to say
     
  4. MB

    MB
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    Tyndale
    You didn't give this good thought. Can you prove that this man wasn't preached to by one of the disciples before his capture, and then meeting Christ hanging on the cross next to him. Can you prove he wasn't one of the five thousand on the mount of olives witnessing the feeding of all those people. It's obvious he knew who Christ was before this event. There is a huge problem when we read a sentence and imagine the rest.
    MB
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    We can all speculate can't we. The scriptures doesn't say and is silent. We can only say what the scriptures say. One would think according to human understanding that something would have been said if that occurred. I believe the Bible is the inspired Word Of God and take it by faith that it is true. Since neither one of us were there we can only go by what has been handed and penned down. I always say according to the way I understand scripture... II Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say... And this is the most important part, And the Lord give thee understanding in all thing.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    saying unless the thief placed faith into jesus as the King/messiah, then he would not have been forgiven and saved!
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I have a question did the Father give the thief to Christ by regeneration on the cross or did the thief come some other way? A thief regenerated
    at the point of death... Now there is a topic. WOW!... He never lost one!
     
  8. InTheLight

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    Luke 23:40: But the other answering him rebuked him saying, Dost thou not fear God seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
    41: And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man has done nothing amiss.
    42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

    1. The thief realized Jesus was God.
    2. The thief realized he was a sinner.
    3. The thief begged for forgiveness. The thief repented.
    4. The thief had faith. The thief "accepted Jesus".
    5. Ergo, the thief was saved by grace through faith.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Thought Both Cals and Arms affirmed that truth, as in ole Saved by Grace alone, thru faith alone?
     
  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    One question... Well actually 5... What five points of doctrine is that?

    Which came first to the thief the realization that he was a sinner or that Jesus was God?
     
  11. Sapper Woody

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    OK, your post is confusing, to say the least. Not exactly sure what you're trying to say here.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    BOTH were the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing him to getting saved by Jesus Christ!
     
  13. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    No one will ever realize what an awful sinner they are until God is pleased to reveal himself to them. Isa 6:1:5 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the serphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another and said, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of host: the whole earth is full of his glory. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: FOR MINE EYES HAVE SEEN THE KING, THE LORD OF HOST. What of Daniel in Dan chapter ten when God revealed himself to Daniel and the same said, there remained no more strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength. What of Job in his book the forty second chapter as he said in verse five and six, I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now my eyes seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes. As God revealed himself in his majesty to these men, he did the same for the one thief on the cross and it drew him to Christ.
     
  14. InTheLight

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    No doctrinal 5 point system, simply Biblical.

    In this narrative I'm pretty sure he knew he was a sinner firstly. He was a thief before he knew Christ.
     
  15. InTheLight

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    Baloney. Romans 2:14-15.
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Two questions and I'll know where you stand? I know the scriptures teach Election... Its not the doctrine that is in question but the application of it. How do you personally understand Election? Do you see election at the cross?
     
  17. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    The law of nature written in our hearts may condemn us at times but the conscience as part of a man is not perfect having lost that in the fall cannot be trusted. How many times as a child my conscience would tell me I did wrong but I would justify myself anyway. Why would I justify myself ? Because the Holy Spirit was not in the matter and I compared myself with men saying, I may have done wrong but who hasn't done wrong or, I may have done wrong but I'm better than most, 11 Cor 10:12. When the Holy Spirit enables you to see you have offended a thrice Holy God and broke his law in word, thought and deed and He can cast you into hell and be just doing so then this has a greater effect on you than a fallen conscience does.
     
  18. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    I see election by God unto the elect in eternity past, before they were born, Eph 1:4. The reason of our election was according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, Eph 1:5-6.
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    Why is it then that its not until we have an experience with God, we really understand just how sinful we all really are before Him?
     
  20. tyndale1946

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    Well the Apostle Paul sure understood didn't he... I Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners of whom I am chief. How sinful did Paul see himself to be... Oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death. When I understand more fully my sinful nature that allows me to see greater Jesus Christ saving grace.
     

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