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Election primer

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by menageriekeeper, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Huh, I wouldn't have thought destruction could have been considered relief. :eek:

    Seriously, what translation are you using, cause this is what my KJV says:

    Ge 5:29and he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us in our work and in the toil of our hands, [which cometh] because of the ground which Jehovah hath cursed.

    There is quite a bit of difference here. KJ shows that this was a father's blessing/thoughts about a newborn that he was proud to have. Even the translation you quoted could seen in the same light. This wasn't a prophecy as much as it was hopeful thinking.
     
  2. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    I'm quoting the ESV. I figure the fact that the Holy Spirit had it saved means that it was significant, especially in light of all that followed. I think it's more a prophecy about Christ than about the flood.

    Anyway, I hope it's clearer what we believe (and don't believe) about election. Any more questions?
     
  3. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

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    1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
     
  4. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    I've read Romans 9 just in the past few days. And I understand that God in His sovreignity can use us as He pleases, whether saved or unsaved. That doesn't mean He doesn't allow us to choose or not choose the gift of salvation.

    Yes, that is exactly correct:

    Ro 1:22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    Ro 1:28And even as they refused to have God in [their] knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

    Yes, Thank you very much for helping me to clarify what I believe, even if it's not exactly what you believe. Tomorrow or the next day I want to tackle "irrisistable grace" which seems tied closely to this topic of election. But I need time to study this for myself first and that'll take a bit of time.

    Isn't amazing how peaceful this discussion has been? :D
     
    #44 menageriekeeper, Sep 17, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2006
  5. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    I have read the Bible, you know. I've read this passage many times. It would really help foster communication if you would explain why you've chosen to post this passage.

    I do believe that God wants all people to believe and be saved. I also believe that there is something else that God wants more than that, and that's why not everyone will be saved. I think you believe that too. I think we only disagree about what it is that God wants more than He wants all people to believe and be saved. So, what do you think it is that God wants more than He wants all people to believe and be saved?
     
  6. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Yep, with God all things are possible!

    :godisgood:
     
  7. FERRON BRIMSTONE

    FERRON BRIMSTONE New Member

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    Below is how I teach freewill and election. I have posted it in other threads but thought it might be helpful here.


    I believe Gods sovereignty and the freewill of Man are both clearly taught in Scripture.


    Election:

    John 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."


    John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.


    Freewill:

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


    Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!



    If Scripture is without error and Scripture teaches both, then both must be true, correct?


    After sin was introduced, and God entered the garden looking for Adam, what did Adam do?

    Genesis 3:10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."

    He hid, and Man has been hiding from God ever since.

    Revelation 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

    We will not come to God on our own, even though we have the freewill to do so. Rather we run from God and the acknowledgement of our sins.

    God desires that all of us would come to him, but none of us will come on our own. So God does not choose who will go to hell, we choose hell ourselves. The problem is without God calling us and convicting us of our sins, we will continue in them, thus rejecting God and deserving hell.

    Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

    The existence of the World and all that is in it is clear evidence of God, yet we will not come to him without him initiating the call by placing conviction and guilt on our hearts. Therefore God Chooses some of us, for his own Divine reasons and through no merit of our own, to bring to him.


    Matthew 20:16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."


    Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

    Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You, That he may dwell in Your courts. We shall be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Of Your holy temple.


    This is the reason that Man is responsible if he goes to hell, but God deserves all the credit for salvation.
     
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