electronic surveillance

Discussion in 'Politics' started by El_Guero, Aug 21, 2006.

  1. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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  2. Daisy

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    Is anyone afraid of electronic surveillance being used against terrorists? The issue has always been it being used against ourselves.

    I suppose aggressive driving could be considered a form of apolitical terrorism - this might help, but the "victim" would have to drive sensibly and not participate....could be a good thing!
     
  3. El_Guero

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    Daisy

    The out cry has been against monitoring communications from known terrorist affiliates abroad with suspects here in the USA.

    The program was not monitoring calls between you and I - well congressional democrats say it wasn't . . . and we all trust them more than we do 'spy guys'.

    So, based upon your statement above, you and I might be in agreement.
     
  4. Daisy

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    I think you've misunderstood the issue - the outcry has been against warrantless monitoring communications of US citizens. The loopholes are "afflilates" and "suspects".

    For instance, suppose my husband calls his parents' house to check on them (his father has had a series of strokes and his mother has schizophrenia) and speaks to the caretaker - but, unbeknownst to Mr. Daisy, the caretaker's wife's uncle by marriage has participated in demonstrations against Israel's devastation of Lebannon. Does that make me a suspect? If no warrant is required, they might just say, "Sure, why not?"

    We happen to be on the mailing list for some mosque - maybe because of Mr. Daisy's last name, maybe someone he knows signed him up to inflate the membership roles - we don't know, but we get solicitations from them every few months. We've never seen the mosque, never contributed, but is being on the mailing list enough to make us "affiliates" or "suspects" should any nefarious activity take place there (I've no reason to think that any has or will be)? If I call my nephew, will he and his friends now be on the listen list? If no warrant is required, they might just say, "Sure, why not?"
    Which congressional Democrats have said that it's not? Do you have a reference I could look at?

    It's possible.
     
    #4 Daisy, Aug 22, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2006
  5. Magnetic Poles

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    Not to mention, the Bush administration IS looking at all of our call records (date, time, duration, number called from, number dialed).

    And the lie continutes to be told that people are against surveillance of calls. WRONG! People are against doing so without warrants. Big difference.
     
  6. El_Guero

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    Back to the OP - most of us are being recorded without our consent - lawyers may get rich, but it is not to protect the USA from terrorists . . .



     
  7. El_Guero

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    Like the OP pointed out - you have no choice. You do not even need to be notified, but you are being monitored while you drive your car . . . unless it is really old.

    Mailing list for a mosque . . . ;) Talk about admitting to carrying a membership card. I do not know what you would want me to respond with. There is no good responce to that.
     
  8. Daisy

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    It's not the government that is doing the monitoring and you can probably disable the black box if you know how.

    We're not even members, we receive mailings. Besides, I have no reason to think that the mosque is anything but a mosque and, so far, there is still freedom of religion - not only Christian religions - in the US, so to use that against us would be downright un-American. Which is one of the things being decried.
     
  9. El_Guero

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    No Daisey

    Continue on in your world, and know that those of us [patriotic Americans] will probably be monitored now that we have chatted with you.

    So, you do not care if Japanese, or Muslims bug your car - but, you do not want terrorist conversations to the USA to be monitored.

    And no, you cannot detach the black box . . . unless you deactivate the electronic controls to the car.

    There are not liberal democrats running to the defense of poor muslims that want to secure finances for more terrorist strikes . . .

    At least there are not any bold enough to campaign on that platform.

    That really makes me wonder what it is that you are hiding . . . You did admit that you had family that conveniently stayed home the day the terrorists struck NY, NY. Personally, I think that admitting that is not the wisest thing you have ever done- but, I do respect your honesty.
     
    #9 El_Guero, Aug 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2006
  10. El_Guero

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    Since you have been more honest with me than I would expect - I ask the obvious.

    If you have gotten on a Muslim mailing list, and your husband tells you it is because of your last name - have you ever stopped to ask: why did they choose my husbands name to look for?

    Was it profiling?

    Strange isn't it. You can overlook profiling from a muslim organization . . .
     
  11. El_Guero

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    mmm ... I tho't you were Christian?

    And no, preventing terrorism is not the same thing as allowing a demonic religion freedom to spread its satanic propaganda. Yes, their freedom to worship in the name of satan is protected - even though I do not think that our ancestors would have let them worship here.
     
    #11 El_Guero, Aug 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2006
  12. Daisy

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    Are you calling me unpatriotic because I think the US laws should be followed by our own government?

    How do you know? There are some who are quite clever in electronics.

    Huh? Moslems are bugging US cars now? What is it that the automakers are monitoring other than speed, distance and how well the car is functioning?

    You've been corrected often enough on this point so that your mistatement of my view has crossed the border from mistake to knowing lie.

    What I admitted was that a dear cousin came thisclose to losing her husband in an atrocity. He didn't stay home, he was merely late. His officemates, some of whom were also Moslem, were killed. That you would twist this only reveals your character and way of thinking.
     
  13. Daisy

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    I am. Being on a mosque's mailing list is not a crime. Being a Moslem is not a crime, capisce? If I were surveilled on suspicion of being a Moslem, that would be religious discrimination, even though the suspicion is ill-founded.

    They do not worship in the name of satan. Allah means "the God" in Arabic. Christians and Jews who speak Arabic refer to "God" as "Allah" (linkie). Moslems consider Allah to be the same God as the God of Abraham and that they are descended from Abraham by way of Ishmael.

    Who do you consider "our ancestors" to be?
     
  14. El_Guero

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    Well now that you mention that . . . are you patriotic?

    You have forgotten how many Americans were killed in the WTC and replaced them with muslims. I really do not understand that . . . there were a dozen muslims maybe two dozen in the WTC. . . that just does not explain why you feel it was bad that so

    You don't want terrorists to be monitored - this is what was being done. Regardless of other hyperbole, the NSA was monitoring international calls (not even local) of terrorists . . .

    Personally, I would rather that all americans have monitored phone and internet conversations. That would be black and white. If you talk outside of your house - it is no longer private. The Framers did not have to think about that one, but I think they would have agreed - you have the freedom to think the Framers would have disagreed.
     
  15. El_Guero

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  16. El_Guero

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    Muslims (in my experience only moslems refer to themselves as moslem) consider Christianity to be of satan. If they consider Jesus to be of satan, then Whom do you consider Jesus to be?

    I pray that you do agree on Jesus.

    It doesn't seem that we agree on Jesus, God, or surveilling terrorists.

    We can disagree on surveilling terrorists . . . and being surveilled by companies . . . I really prefer to be surveilled by a democratically controlled congress in charge of NSA than by a company run by foreign nationals.
     
  17. carpro

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    Allah is a false and murderous god represented by a false and murderous prophet and has nothing at all to do with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost that we worship.

    All muslims are doomed to spend eternity apart from the one true God unless they repent and accept Jesus as their savior.
     
  18. Daisy

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    That's not how they see it. Allah is derived from the God of the Bible historically, culturally, heresitically.

    That's not different from Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Confucians, Zarathusrians, etc. They are not a special kind of evil.
     
  19. carpro

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    They see it wrong.

    What makes them especially evil is they are the only ones out of the groups named that are busily trying kill anyone that does not worship as they do.
     
  20. Daisy

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    Once more, you are mistaken. In the Koran, Jesus is considered to be a prophet of God, one of the holy men.

    You continually mischaracterize my beliefs. Why?
     

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