Elevation of women in the church and in society

Let's back up one verse.

Does verse 21 include a man submitting to a woman?

 

I will read your other posts if time permits (30 something pages is a bit daunting) and acknowledge without reading them your recognition of varying situations.

It does appear you and and your wife have in the least an amenable relationship and apparently a satisfying one for both of you without any marked abuses of either one's role so my guess is that there aren't going to be any major reconstruction projects in your administration.

In the mean time I'll post a warning if my wife is close to becoming POTUS. heh

 

Brother, do you know how to read? I said submission is yielding to another, i.e., for your wife to be in submission she is yielding to you. Didn't realize it needed to be spelled out. And for the record submission is not obedience. Submission is an attitude.

sub·mis·sion [səb mísh’n]
(plural sub·mis·sions)
n
1. yielding, or readiness to yield: a willingness to yield or surrender to somebody, or the act of doing so
demanded nothing less than total submission to his authority

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

sub·mis·sion –noun 1.an act or instance of submitting. 2.the condition of having submitted. 3.submissive conduct or attitude. 4.something that is submitted, as an application. 5.Law. an agreement between parties involved in a dispute, to abide by the decision of an arbitrator or arbitrators.

Man, I'm not so dense that I think you tyrannize your wife and beat your children. Get with the program please.

Decisions are male? Don't you think you are adding to the scriptures in the least little bit with that doozy of a statement? As for usurping authority in the home, who exactly is doing so? Other than that I suggest that you take a good godly course on the role of husbands in a good godly Christian marriage....

 

Submission is far more than an attitude...

SUBMIS''SION, n. [L. submissio, from submitto.]

1. The act of submitting; the act of yielding to power or authority; surrender of the person and power to the control or government of another.

Submission, dauphin! ''tis a mere French word;

We English warriors wot not what it means.

2. Acknowledgment of inferiority or dependence; humble or suppliant behavior.

In all submission and humility,

York doth present himself unto your highness.

3. Acknowledgment of a fault; confession or error.

Be not as extreme in submission, as in offense.

4. Obedience; compliance with the commands or laws of a superior. Submission of children to their parents is an indispensable duty.

5. Resignation; a yielding of one''s will to the will or appointment of a superior without murmuring. Entire and cheerful submission to the will of God is a christian duty of prime excellence. (Source: Webster's 1828)​

 

Consider the source.....

 

:laugh: I always crack up when these KJV/POs use Webster's 1828.

 

Far more Biblically accurate than Encarta.

 

Rufus do you not think that it is possible to be obedient, but not submissive? i can think of many an instance where this could be applied. Submission is to willingly yield, obedience not so much.

 

:laugh: ......

 

Oh yes, I read quite well. It is my typing that gets somewhat hurried.

Why didn't you give the defition for obedience?

"the act of obeying; dutiful or submissive behavior with respect to another person" - Google.com

O*be"di*ence (?), n. [F. obédience, L. obedientia, oboedientia. See Obedient, and cf.Obeisance.]

1. The act of obeying, or the state of being obedient; compliance with that which is required by authority; subjection to rightful restraint or control.

Government must compel the obedience of individuals. Ames.
2. Words or actions denoting submission to authority; dutifulness. Shak.

- 1828

Come now, let us be a little more honest in our discourse.

And you actually said, "submission is living with a willingness to yield to another", so you were defining submission, which involves me yeilding to my wife (in submission, since that is what you were defining). Be more precise with your wording and we won't have these English issues.

I never said you thought I tyrannized my wife, did I. Nope. I would put that little "roll eyes" icon there, but I think it is quite rude.

And on your last paragraph, no I don't think so. And even if I did, you ought to go ask your husband before trying to correct me on it. If he agree, well, then we will disagree. Furthermore, there is no need to slander. Thus far I have held back that flood and would ask you to do so as well, that way we don't get in a girly name calling fight.

Your suggestion is noted and heard, but that I have done more than once for the sole benefit of my family and trying to adhere to God and his word. I would suggest the same for all men, and certainly for all women... even you.

 

Which is exactly why I also pulled a modern def. off of google.

 

In the future, you can get a modern Webster's definition from:

http://www.m-w.com

Encarta is known for its politically correct (mis)definitions.

 

Why make up definitions?

How can one be submissive without being obedient?

How can one be obedient without being submissive?

 

Thanks npet:


obedient
One entry found for obedient.


Main Entry: obe·di·ent
Pronunciation: -&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin oboedient-, oboediens, from present participle of oboedire to obey
: submissive to the restraint or command of authority : willing to obey
- obe·di·ent·ly adverb
synonyms OBEDIENT, DOCILE, TRACTABLE, AMENABLE mean submissive to the will of another. OBEDIENT implies compliance with the demands or requests of one in authority <obedient to the government>. DOCILE implies a predisposition to submit readily to control or guidance <a docile child>. TRACTABLE suggests having a character that permits easy handling or managing <tractable animals>. AMENABLE suggests a willingness to yield or to cooperate either because of a desire to be agreeable or because of a natural open-mindedness <amenable to new ideas>.

 

Ummm...You can read, but can you read in context? What has been the main point of the duration of this thread? That's right, the role of women. What is the role to which I was referring? That's right, wives being submissive to their husbands....

And addressing me using the term "Lady" isn't? If you didn't notice my reply was sarcastic in nature for a reason.....

Hmm... it is not okay for me to call you out on something, "correcting" you as you say, but it is okay for you to chastise another man's wife? Right.... :laugh: Pot meet kettle. As for my husband he loves that I have mind of my own with my own opinions. You know what? He even lets me think for myself. Please don't "hold back your flood for me".

I have completed several in depth studies with my husband on this topic, but thank you.

 

Sheesh! Is it really that hard? You really don't think there can be obedience without submission, especially in terms of a biblical marriage? It is a matter of the heart. Think of an angry teenager who obeys his parents because he does not want punished. Is that really a submissive attitude? I think not.

 

I also posted the standard definition of submission from the APA, CMS, and MLA. How many more are necessary?

 

That may be the context, but that wasn't what you said. I try to take people at what they say, not how they mean to say something.

Lady, is a compliment in my house.

I am not chastening you, reproving, rebuking and exhorting is more my line.

[/QUOTE]

Good. Your welcome.

 

That teen is still being obedient by submitting to the parents. Is it really that hard to understand? Attitude is not the topic, actual submission and obedience. Way to set up that strawman though...

 

Hey, don't look at me - I'm not complaining. I was just posting a way to get to a webster's defintion other than the 1828 one.