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Emerging Church Videos

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by skypair, Oct 22, 2008.

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  1. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    #1 skypair, Oct 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2008
  2. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    So Mr. seeker sensative mega church guy in the hawaiian shirt is paying people cash to go to his church?
     
    #2 donnA, Oct 22, 2008
  3. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    More in the form of Joel Osteen's "prosperity gospel." In fact, I think that circular church in one of the scenes might be outside his converted Houston Rockets church building. Anybody else recognize it?

    skypair
     
    #3 skypair, Oct 22, 2008
  4. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Willow Creek is leaning towards contemplative, Catholic and Emerging sprituality. This is from someone very familiar with Willow Creek:
    http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/60/willow-creek-emerging-toward-rome

    This is from an Emerging blog that is happy to see what they believe is Willow Creek turning emergent:
    http://jonathanbrink.com/2007/09/21/is-willow-creek-going-emerging/

    Also see
    http://watcherslamp.blogspot.com/2007/03/two-witnesses-emerging-saddleback.html

    I don't the danger is Seeker Sensitive - it's the influence of the Emerging movement that is bringing in mysticism and Roman Catholic type thinking. The praise of Roman Catholic mystics is rife among Emergents and now a growing number of evangelicals. Yet many of these mystics did not have sound theology and some were even outside of historical Christian worldviews.
     
    #4 Marcia, Oct 22, 2008
  5. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Thank you, Marcia, for those links. I think the key issue that Emergent and Seeker churches have in common is that they ASSUME that those who come in are saved. The church of AC will do the same. Do you see this?

    I, too, thought the seeker/emergent pattern was innocuous. Just make the gospel the "centerpiece," right? What's wrong with wanting outsiders to come into your church?

    The key is "on what terms are you going to accept them?" Is this a social/community relationship or a God relationship we're after? Look at the second video -- Hybels admitting "no spiritual growth." Why? Maybe they weren't SAVED, eh?

    Ya know who has a seeker friendly "hook?" The 7th Day Adventists! Have you ever been to one of their "End Times" week-long revivals? I've been. Pretty compelling! "Ear-tickling!" No gospel (as I recall) -- just "bait."

    skypair
     
    #5 skypair, Oct 22, 2008
  6. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    You're welcome!



    I don't think that is true of Seeker churches, that is why they are called "seeker" churches. They are trying to lure "seekers" not believers. I don't think it's true of the Emergent churches either, since they are trying to draw unchurched and/or unbelievers.

    There is little in common with Emergent and Seeker senstive in terms of style and who they are trying to attract.


    I don't know about that. I think that there were believers there but that the main problem might have been there was no hardcore Bible teaching or discipleship. It was shallow Christianity.


    That's true - they are good at luring people under false pretenses, at least in terms of their TV programs and some of their media material. But individually, they are extremely aggressive trying to get Christians to believe in their Sabbath doctrine and soul sleep. I've been pursued by SDAs over the years trying to get me on board with their beliefs. I used to respond and try to show them the errors they have. Now, I won't bother at all to discuss things with them. It's a waste of my time.
     
    #6 Marcia, Oct 22, 2008
  7. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Good point, Marcia. But here's where I see a "connection" (a word my church uses all the time) -- in the Augustinian/Calvinism model, no one "seeks" God EXCEPT those who are "regenerate." That's something to think about anyway depending on where you think this "emergent" movement came from.

    This is where my church is "on the path." We have not gone, yet, into full "emergent" mode of abandoning the gospel and the Bible. What we ARE doing is "making a bridge" (Emergent keyword), "offering a connection," introducing a few Willow Creek materials, holding "Men's Fraternity" where we study "pop psychology's" answers to living the abundant life, etc. And we are a megachurch.

    That's what Hybels admits in the second video above.

    I got a "whiff" of this movement while watching Jack Van Impe in which he characterized Hybels and those like him as "Preaching sermon-ettes and making Christian-ettes!"

    skypair
     
    #7 skypair, Oct 23, 2008
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    #8 Revmitchell, Oct 23, 2008
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Well, I'm not sure there is a connection. Seeker sensitive churches are not Calvinist or non-Calvinist. I think that issue is irrelevant to them from what I know. The term "seeker" is used a lot in the Christian community to mean people seeking spiritual answers via many avenues.


    So your church is leaning toward being emerging?


    Unfortunately, they diagoned the problem but are giving the wrong prescription for it.


    Well, bless his little ol' headline seeking heart! I am not a fan of Van Impe's healdine prophecy stuff, but this statement is right on.
     
    #9 Marcia, Oct 23, 2008
  10. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Let me give you another example:

    In Men's Fraternity we are studying "The Great Adventure" (AKA: life). We are being told to take our design (past), our pursuits (present), and our dreams (future) and write up a "mission statement" that includes adventure in each area of our lives (family, work, man-sized adventure, spiritual adventure).

    OK, so do you recognize that? It's "humanism!" Paul excoriated the CARNAL Christians in Corinth for thinking that way. Your life is not your own ... you are bought with a price! That planning is something you did before you were saved!

    This is not going to lead to spiritual Christian growth but either to a) frustration when your plans cannot be achieved or b) disappointment that their achievement is so fleeting and empty!

    skypair
     
    #10 skypair, Oct 25, 2008
  11. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Sky, I bet they love you at the Men's Fraternity meetings.
     
    #11 sag38, Oct 25, 2008
  12. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    They do. I don't get up and outright denounce the syllabus or anything. But I have been "corresponding" with the staff letting them know of my concerns. Meanwhile, we're pretty much in the "new church hunting" mode. :tear:

    skypair
     
    #12 skypair, Oct 25, 2008
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    This video addresses that:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwbps9k5Dj0
     
    #13 Revmitchell, Oct 25, 2008
  14. givengrace

    givengrace New Member

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    I'm Sorry but I'm not following what your tring to say as to Hybels church. The Church I recentlly left (to minister else where) was a member of the Willow Creek asso.
     
    #14 givengrace, Oct 25, 2008
  15. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    That's good! Especially liked the part "Why would a man die with Christ? Why would a man be resurrected to new life? Because that is the only way God can use a human being!"

    skypair
     
    #15 skypair, Oct 26, 2008
  16. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Sorry. For fear of "beating a dead horse," I didn't reiterate the story of Bill Hybel's apology that I had posted elsewhere. You heard part of it on PART 1 -- the middle youtube excerpt.

    Basically, he apologized because all that he had brought into the church and who even joined SGF's had, according to the church's own survey, not grown one iota spiritually! His "system" was good for bringing people into the "net" but he couldn't bring them to the "shore." Does this mean a lot of them have the "appearance" of salvation without the "substance?" I think even he is unsure of the answer to that question.

    skypair
     
    #16 skypair, Oct 26, 2008
  17. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Here is a blog entry by Willowcreek executive pastor Greg Hawkins who co-wrote the book Reveal: Where are you?.

     
    #17 Gold Dragon, Oct 30, 2008
  18. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Thank you, Golden. I probably should now go to the website and see what they intend to do to correct the situation -- and whether they are going to take that information to churches who already practice their "paradigm" of seeker-centered worship.

    skypair
     
    #18 skypair, Oct 30, 2008
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