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Encouraging Words from John Hagee...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by skypair, Apr 2, 2007.

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  1. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    I was listning this week to John's sermons on the end times. One of the comparisons he made really blessed me. It was about the parallels between Jesus and Joseph. But I'll get right to the part the blessed me.

    1) In Gen 42-45, Joseph is already ruler in Egypt. His brothers visit him 3 times -- the Jews were sent out to the Gentiles 3 times and have now returned to their land 3 times.

    2) When Joseph could no longer bear it, he sent the Egytians out of the room while he revealed his identity to his brothers -- Jesus will send the Gentiles believers, the church, out of the world via the rapture so that He can reveal Himself to Israel.

    3) Joseph showed his brothers his circumcision as proof of who he was -- Jesus will show Israel his hands, feet, and sides (about midtrib, I believe, Zech 12:10) as proof of who He is.

    4) Joseph's brothers did, indeed, bow down the their brother (as Joseph had dreamed) and move into his kingdom -- Israel will bow down to Messiah Jesus and "move into" His MK.

    It's pretty exciting stuff! I haven't yet figured out some of the other symbolism earlier in the account, but stuff like the cup hidden in the sack of corn, etc. -- I bet they are significant, too.

    skypair
     
    #1 skypair, Apr 2, 2007
  2. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Col 3:11 Here [In the Church.) there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

    How comes the Church is represented by Eygptians?

    john.
     
    #2 johnp., Apr 2, 2007
  3. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    And if you add up the numbers of Ronald Reagan it equals 666. Find it hard to believe Hagee would have anything to say that I would consider a blessing. I guess the point that Joseph was just trying to prove who really was to his brothers is too obvious? What about the fact that Joseph's brothers found refuge in Egypt not in Israel...how does that play out?

    Funny that someone like Hagee who espouses a literal understanding of the Bible would be so allegorical to make a point. Hagee is never one to allow the Bible to get in the way of "good preaching". This goes to show that hard line dispensationalist's are only literal with the scriptures when it suits their cause.
     
    #3 go2church, Apr 2, 2007
  4. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    I agree completely.

    This is a great point. It is one of the major reasons my theology has changed from the dispensationalism that I grew up with. I just assumed it was right without doing any study on my own.
     
    #4 PastorSBC1303, Apr 2, 2007
  5. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    Where in Scripture does it say Joseph revealed his circumcision? I believe Hagee has added to the Word of God in that statement.
     
    #5 His Blood Spoke My Name, Apr 2, 2007
  6. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Hey all,

    I wasn't trying to rain on your parade. My late Pastor Adrian Rogers gave a very similar Joseph-Jesus sermon if that helps.

    Me thinks y'all are getting a bit too jaded in your theology. Sorry you can't celebrate the moment with me. :jesus:

    Maybe after work there will be others with better attitudes. :D

    skypair
     
    #6 skypair, Apr 2, 2007
  7. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Adrian Rogers and John Hagee do not belong in the same zip code, much less the same post :)
     
    #7 PastorSBC1303, Apr 2, 2007
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Not that exciting. You can force analogies from practically anything you want, with a little practice and a willing audience.

    I am not sure why Hagee's views are being discussed on a Baptist theology forum.
     
    #8 rsr, Apr 2, 2007
  9. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Well, let me put it this way ---- what is it the Hagee expects, vis-a-vis this sermon, that you don't?

    And to me -- I'd make the point, why is Calvin discussed on a Baptist theology forum?

    skypair
     
    #9 skypair, Apr 2, 2007
  10. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    Well for one or two or three...the rapture, a seven year tribulation, 1000 year millennium just for starters
     
    #10 go2church, Apr 2, 2007
  11. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    You name it. But that's really neither here nor there. I just object to preachers who types and foreshadowings at the drop of a verse. Some are real (and usually the Bible will tell you which ones are important) and many, many more are just fabricated for the sake of a sermon.

    Baptists for 400 years have been divided over soteriology, and the doctrines of grace have been a major point of contention. Ultimately, that means going to back to Calvin in one way or another.

    Baptists have not traditionally divided over eschatology, which they have considered, from the standpoint of who is a Baptist and who is not, pretty much irrelevant.

    Hagee is nothing but eschatology, and he has not influenced (or at least I hope not) Baptist thought in any significant way.
     
    #11 rsr, Apr 2, 2007
  12. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    From the OP:

    Hagee might reply thusly: The Holy Grail, no doubt. Points to the marraige supper of the Lamb. Definitely a sign that the rapture is near.

    But seriously, it seems to be a pretty clever way to make sure they came back.

    Application: It was the means by which God brought about the end which He had determined beforehand.
     
    #12 J.D., Apr 3, 2007
  13. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    So you don't believe 1Thes 4:16-17, 1Cor 15:51, John 14:1-3, 2Thes 1:7, Matt 24:40-41, Matt 25:1-13, etc. -- rapture passages.

    You don't believe Dan 9:27, Matt 24:15-21, Rev 6-19, etc. -- tribulation passages.

    You don't believe Rev 20:6-7 nor the Davidic Covenant.

    Hmmm. Why is it I have the feeling that you don't accept the whole counsel of God?

    skypair
     
    #13 skypair, Apr 4, 2007
  14. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Well, like I said, it doesn't appear to be "drop of the hat" if Dr Rogers (and who knows how many others) finds the same parallels. I think you are objecting against the man and not the message.

    For an "other than biblical" sotierology? Doesn't this make the same point about Hagee and Calvin? Yeah, both are probably wrong to some extent. But can you not discern the truth in each as well?

    I will admit that my own church bookstore sells his books from "under the counter." This is on account, not of his eschatology, but on account of his healing and prosperity messages. Otherwise, you apparently aren't familiar enough with him to have an opinion on his "Baptist thought," right?

    skypair
     
    #14 skypair, Apr 4, 2007
  15. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Or it could be that it represented the "cup of My blood" which Israel unknowingly went away from Calvary with but which causes them, by jealousy, to come back to Joseph, possibly?

    skypair
     
    #15 skypair, Apr 4, 2007
  16. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    I believe the Bible, just not the twisted manner in which Dispensationalism handles it. I The passages you sight have been discussed and if you want to hear another point of view you could do the searching. I am sorry that you feel your interpretation of scripture is the only one that is right. I am also sorry that you are so quick to doubt my belief in the Bible, simply because I don't think like you.

    Hagee is a televangelist, who does what he does to raise money to stay on TV. He has figured out that there are enough folks like you willing to listen, send money and keep him "popular". So he has a chart drawn up, that is essentially the same as the last one, throws in a few news stories and away we go!
     
    #16 go2church, Apr 4, 2007
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Whether you like Hagee or not, your really have no business trying to state his intentions. You don't know that man's heart, so please quit slandering him. You are out of line.
     
    #17 webdog, Apr 4, 2007
  18. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    OK, wisecracks about Hagee aside, I'll grant you the podium if you will explain how you read John 14:1-4.

    skypair
     
    #18 skypair, Apr 4, 2007
  19. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    For you, it can mean anything you want it to mean. Get enough "scholars" like Hagee and Rogers to agree with you and it becomes "truth". What hermeneutic did you apply to arrive at that conclusion?
     
    #19 J.D., Apr 4, 2007
  20. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    I am free to dissect Hagee anyway I choose. He dissects me every time he refers to those who don't believe like he does as "not teaching the truth". I don't need to see his intents, I have his actions and words to examine.


    Concerning John 14; Jesus is going to return one day and in the mean time is preparing a place for us. Truth is you have more of a problem with John 14 then I do. Where in John 14 do you see a rapture and second coming as two separate events?
     
    #20 go2church, Apr 4, 2007
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