End of Israel?

Name-calling - the last resort of those who know they've lost the argument. I suppose you think the same of Jesus and John - tackle them first before you turn your fire on me.

 

I've seen this act before where some premillennialists, especially the dispensationalist kind, accuse anyone who doesn't buy into their system of being anti-Semitic. Shameful.

 

Israel still existed between 70A.D. and May 14, 1948, but it was inhabited mostly by Arabs and the land became a wasteland. Now that the Jewish people are back in their own land, Israel is "blossoming as a rose". Yes, God did cast them out, but He promised to bring them back to their land...which He has done:

Isaiah 43:5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

Concerning the prophecy in Ezekiel 37 about the "dry bones":

Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Indeed, God has brought the children of Israel back to their land...in unbelief now, but at the end of the "time of Jacob's trouble" (Jeremiah 30:7), they will return to their God and recognize Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. (Zech. 12:10)

 

Then question Jesus and John too.

 

Yes, in the 530s BC

To be frank, you're moving the goal posts here. You're claiming that Israel did exist when it clearly didn't for nearly two millenia. That makes about as much sense as claiming that 'England' existed when Julius Caesar visited Britain in 55BC, despite the fact that the English were nowhere near the place and wouldn't be there for another 4 centuries.

 

From The Berean Call Newsletter, September, 2000, (excerpts):

 

Excellent.:applause:

 

All this mutual adoration and the quoting of chunks of Scripture is all very nice, I'm sure, but I still don't see why what Cyrus the Great did in fulfilment of OT prophecy in 538BC has got anything to do with what David ben Gurion and Co did in 1948

 

I offer the following opinion as extracted from an article by British theologian NT Wright:

 

I'm curious....how many who say Israel isn't the O/T Israel believe in the rapture of the saints ?

say it like this, with no rebuttal to others, IOW, BE NICE !!!!!

I believe Israel to be God's chosen nation, where Christ will set up his Earthly Kingdom, and I believe in the rapture.

 

This flys for me!!!!

 

:godisgood::thumbs:

 

Double post!

 

I believe that the "rapture" occurs at Christ's second coming at the end this world.

 

As far as I understand the history of Palestine and Jewish/Israeli ownership thereof there has always been Jewish residency in the land of Palestine even sense 70 AD. Jerusalem has always had a Jewish sector, Christian sector and an Arab sector. Israel has not had perpetual autonomy sense the Maccabeean period between the Greek period and the Roman period until 1948 AD. Again there has always been a Jewish presence but not autonomy. Jerusalem and the "Holy Land" has been trodden under the feet of gentile rule from actually Babylonian rule until 1948 AD, the period of no Jewish Monarch even to today.
Jesus did ride into Jerusalem as the Jewish King. However upon His arrest the people rejected Him. After all, How could the Heavenly King allow Himself be captured by the gentile power? He became the chief cornerstone rejected and even now is a stumbling stone for the Jews. His status as a stone of stumbling will be reversed in a spectacular fashion.
Zachariah Chapters 12&13 there is evidence that spiritual revival will come to Israel after they have returned to their land.
Zechariah 12 describes Israel just as Israel is today.
Zechariah 13
1In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
2And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
3And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
4And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
5But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
6And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
7Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

Andre, thanks for this from +Tom Wright, with which I thoroughly agree.

Bro Curtis, I do believe in the rapture but not in the continuation of the Covenant with the modern Israeli state.

 

It is the rejection by Israel, of it's promised Messiah, and the resulting "setting aside" of the completion of the Kingdom, that we find ourselves today. This age we are now in was NOT prophetic, it was hidden in God, the Father. Eph 3 all, specifically verse 9. There is no longer a difference between Jew and Gentile.

Beautiful truth, but the long promised Kingdom, with Christ sitting on David's throne, is still to come, after the fullness of the Gentiles be come in, and immediately taken out. In the mean time Israel is blinded to Christ. Rom 11:25

Christ has not taken His rightful throne in Israel yet, so that particular prophesy has not been fulfilled. Paul's writings, which were revealed to him over 2 or 3 decades, applies to this age in which we reside. This age was "hidden in the Father", completely apart from prophetic scripture. Once this age is fulfilled, i.e. the fullness of the Gentiles, the Messiah, Jesus Christ, will again take up His prophetic program. The angel told Mary that her Son would take up the throne of David, and that it would have no end. That has Not occurred.

I know some will try to spiritualize this, but David sat on a real throne, in a real country, in a real time, and Christ will also.

 

I share this opinion, but I do not believe there will be a rapture in the sense that is commonly believed. I hate to seem like a shameless plagiarizer, but I will again quote Tom Wright on the subject of the rapture:

 

Disagreeing on eschatology does not make one anti-semitic.