End Times - 4 Ways the World calls down wrath

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    It seems to me that we have at the end of time - four loud challenges to God's Word by World leaders that call for Him to make an end of all things.

    In Leviticus 18 - God lists a number of "abominations" that will cause Him to "END" a nation - in fact He says in that chapter He will even end a pagan non-Bible-Aware nation for doing such things.

    1. Abortion - killing children.
    2. Gay rigths, gay marriage

    Both of those abominations are listed in Lev 18 as causing the "end of nations".


    Another pair of key actions that call upon God to end all things are these two main challenges to His Role as Creator - we see this mentioned in Rev 14:6-7.

    1. Evolutionism taught as the right doctrine on origins - and God's Word, the Bible, declared to be wrong.
    2. Editing or deleting the Sabbath commandment that memorializes God's role in Creation in a literal 7 day creation week.


    These four factors are on their way to becoming "formalized" and "legislated" in governments world wide. As these four factors become more and more universal - the end must come just as scripture predicts. And so we should expect to see signs in nature that wrath is around the corner.

    What are your thoughts?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #1 BobRyan, Apr 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  2. Cutter

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    Interesting.
    And we do continue to see these sins being perpetuated more and more.
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Indeed we do. Here is a thread on the BB (in a place where I am not supposed to contribute ;) ) where we see Christians arguing against the idea that God did what He says that He did in Ex 20:8-11.

    Clearly there are a lot of logical gaps in the argument that seeks to equivocate between Roman Catholic traditions in the dark ages about a flat earth and an earth-centric universe, as compared to the actual Bible position codified into LAW "SIX days you shall labor...for in SIX DAYS the Lord Made"

    To reach the level of equivocation that Peggy is suggesting - you would need to make GOD - at Sinai - nothing more than a Catholic Pope in the dark ages saying "something else that is not true" about nature.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. ReformedBaptist

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    Why would Lev 18 apply to America? What covenant does the Lord have with Americans?
     
  5. steaver

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    Rev 14:6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    I see preaching of the everlasting gospel. The hour of judgment pronounced. God as Creator.

    Where do you see either of your two points?

    :jesus:
     
  6. BobRyan

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    Lev 18 addresses the pagan nations God drove out of Caanan -- what Covenant were you thinking God had with them?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

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    I highlighted the quote of God's Creation Sabbath commandment for you in case you skimmed past it.

    The point is that God ties the literal fact of His role in creation - a 7 day week - a literal set of days - to actual Worship.

    When evolution argues that it was not a 7 day week - but a 4 billion year "evolution" without any such thing as "God spoke and it was" without anything leading us to think of God as "creating the heavens the earth, the seas and the springs of water" so as to deserve worship - then they are going directly after the Creator Himself.

    Please Let me know if I need to make that more plain.

    :godisgood:
    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. steaver

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    I'm not seeing it.

    Where is evolution being taught revealed in the text?
    Where is God's word declared to be wrong?
    Where is the Sabbath commandment deleted?
    There is nothing about "7 days" or "6" or "5" in the text.

    :jesus:
     
  9. BobRyan

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    "You can lead a horse to water - but you cannot make him drink":sleep:

    Many Bible students notice the language in Rev 14:7 and the language of Ex 20:8-11. (Hint there is something about creating the world in 7 actual days in Ex 20:8-11).

    For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    "worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters"

    Feel free to look it up when you have a few minutes.

    Very often Bible students notice the difference between evolution and a literal 7 day creation.

    Of course not everyone will notice that and certainly am not trying to get you to notice anything that you don't want to notice -- just pointing out a detail, feel free to do as you wish with it.

    :jesus:

    Bob
     
    #9 BobRyan, Apr 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2010
  10. steaver

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    If your are going to be a teacher then try explaining your teaching from the text you provided.

    Here is the text;

    Rev 14:6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    Point me to the words that say;

    1. Evolutionism taught as the right doctrine on origins - and God's Word, the Bible, declared to be wrong.
    2. Editing or deleting the Sabbath commandment that memorializes God's role in Creation in a literal 7 day creation week.

    Is this how the SDA teaches? When a student ask a question you say "are you blind?!"

    Break it down. Your not a cult are you that simply says "you believe what I tell you it says"? Good grief Charlie Brown, Show me where evolution and deleting the Sabbath is spoken of in the text.

    :jesus:
     
  11. ReformedBaptist

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    I was looking at Lev18 being addressed to Israel. But the Lord had no special covenant with the rest of the nations, just like He doesn't with this nation.
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    Gods word to our nation

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...at=series&subsetitem=God's+Word+To+Our+Nation

    Here are four of the best messages you will ever hear on this topic anywhere.
    Listen to them in sequence if possible.
    1]http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=62803143756
    Part 1 of 4 - hear them all.

    A brief series of four messages addressing the moral condition of our nation in a focused way. The first message deals with the relationship of God to all the nations, including our own.

    In this introductory message we see:
    1. the subjugation of all the nations to the sovereign rule of God.
    2. the accountability of the nations to the just judgment of God.
    3. the responsibility of the nations to hear the word of God.
    4. the solidarity of believers with the nation in which they are found.

    Subsequent messages address more pointedly our nations’ sins of bloodguiltiness, sexual perversion and religious apostasy.

    Preached at the Mid America Family Conference in Bluffton, Ohio.

    Also available in RealAudio® format on www.tbcnj.org.

    2]http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=62803175244
    We have received many blessings from the hand of God as a nation and have much to give Him thanks for; yet as a nation we have not been living as those mindful of God's kindness to us and of our accountability to God. Instead, we have turned away from listening to God and His word into paths of unrighteousness.

    One of the most aggravated sins of moral degeneracy of our nation is that of the unrequited blood of murdered multitudes. Our nation is stained with an ocean of blood that cries to God for His vengeance. In this opening up of God's Word to our nation, we hear God's rebuke and denunciation for our nation's aggravated sins and a call to repentance and prayer.
    3]http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=6290383510
    Our Nation is in serious spiritual need but in God's word, the Bible, we find answers to our moral and social problems as a nation.

    Sadly these days, our Nation is marked not only by an unrestrained and unashamed abandonment to sensuality but also by the putrid sin of sexual perversion. What is called sexual orientation and an alternative lifestyle today, God has always called an abomination, which he visits with severe judgment but from which he offers salvation.

    In this message from God's Word to our Nation, we hear God's rebuke and denunciation for our nation's aggravated moral sins and a call to repentance and prayer.

    There is cleansing in the blood of Christ for all of our sexual sins. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
    4]http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=63003183934
    Righteousness exalts a nation; but sin is a reproach to any people." Proverbs 14:34

    As a nation we have in large scale rejected the true and living God and have abandoned our godly heritage and the special light that came through mighty preachers in the past and formerly pious church denominations and have gone headlong into decadent humanism, deceptive liberalism, demonic occultism and a weak, man-centered, flesh-pleasing, fad-conforming evangelicalism. By doing so we have incurred a dreadful accountability as a nation before God. As a nation we must repent and plead for God to have mercy upon us.
     
    #12 Iconoclast, Apr 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2010
  13. Trotter

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    Sorry, Bob. Sounds like you've been reading "Amazing Facts" again.
     
  14. BobRyan

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    So when you read the text and he talks about how he booted the Caananites for all the violations he listed there - you think of the Caananites as just "Israel"??

    How does that work? Given that at the writing of Lev 18 - Israel has not even gotten to the land of Caanan yet.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Thanks - I will take a look.

    :jesus:

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. BobRyan

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    Sure thing - happy to clear that up for you. Here is the information you need.

    Let me know if I need to make this more plain.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #16 BobRyan, Apr 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2010
  17. steaver

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    Ok, doesn't matter to me if you don't want to explain. I have other places to go. :wavey:

    I won't be here when the tribulation happens anyways. See ya in the air or in heaven if we both die before the rapture.
     
  18. BobRyan

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    The world has seen much tribulation already - 2 world wars, atomic bombs, chemical warfare, genocide, century upon century of the dark ages.

    The rapture happens at the "First Resurrection" mentioned in Rev 20:4-5 - the resurrection of the saints (the blessed and holy ones as Rev 20 says).

    Some people think that the rapture happens years BEFORE the event in Rev 20 (that comes moments after the event described in Rev 19). They claim that in all the tribulation this world has already been through - as horrible as it is - an even worse one is coming far beyond what has already been witnessed with such horror.

    My point is simply that the signs in nature should be clueing us in that trouble is around the corner. I am not saying that any trouble that comes must always be massively greater than anything that has ever caused genocide, or distress in the past.

    In the realm of coming trouble - there is "much trouble" as we all know that is still well below the level of "more genocide than has ever been seen in the past". And since the world has already had to endure such troubles without the rapture stepping in and sparing the saints from that trouble - we know of a certain "degree" of trouble that is very unpleasant and yet does not bring on the rapture as a way of escaping it. Well... more of that is coming apparently.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Eric B

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    We need to be careful focusing on only CERTAIN sins, as if they alone are what triggers God's wrath. That surely leads to self-righteousness. Like God is going to punish the woelr for all those sins others (including even other Christians, such as Sundaykeepers or "modern" evangelicalism) commit, as if the ones I commit aren't that bad.

    Here, we have picked out a single chapter in the Torah; one which happens to deal with sexual sins. Because the punishment of pagan nations is mentioned; it is then assumed that sexual sins are "worse" than everything else. Then, America manages to be thrown into it, as if it were the new covenant nation replacing Israel. So now, it's all about America. What happens then, is this presumtion that America was "good" and "listening to God" when sexual sin, and abortion weren't as prevalent (and remember, there was no electronic media broadcasting everything instantly), and now "bad" and deserving wrath only because those sins, along with evolutionism and other religions are now more present.

    Of course, because the nation was so divinely "chosen", the sinful means of conquest/colonialism weren't wrong at all; they were God's acts just like with the Canaanites; supposedly. Modern financial greed isn't really that bad; it's people's right, or at least the Left's fault (Darwinism, Marxism, godless education, Obama for bailing them out, etc).

    But Lev.18 is one chapter (not the entire Law), and it does not say that those are the worst sins that bring down God's wrath. Christ died for all sins, and all sins create a need for salvation, and if any is the worst or more dangerous, it might be self-righteousness, because that is what blinds one to the need for forgiveness for one's own sin. We're so busy trying to correct everyone else, and likely confident in that you aren't committing those really "bad" sins of homosexuality, abortion, or false belief. It was self-righteousness that finally led Israel to reject Christ! Feeling they did not need a savior from sin; only a savior from pagan rule (they had long cleaned up a lot of those sins condemned in the OT; at least on the surface, and had gone to the opposite extreme with rules like the sabbath).
    Throwing the sabbath and evolutionism into it just makes this a rant about the issues the SDA thinks are the most important. (And America was never a 7th day sabbathkeeping nation; so right there; wouldn't it have been deserving God's wrath from the beginning, along with every other nation in the world?)
     
    #19 Eric B, Apr 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2010
  20. BobRyan

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    While I agree that ALL sin is bad -- Lev 18 was not "authored by man". This is a case of God selecting a list and saying for THIS I cast out the (pagan) nation that was before you - and for THIS I will also cast you out.

    Again - I agree that all sin is bad and that clinging to our sins - is to rebel against God - even if those sins are NOT listed in places like Lev 18 where God identifies a list that HAVE caused him to "end" a nation and that WILL cause him to do it in the future.


    The assumption is that because "not all other sins are listed" there - we can notice the state of certain bell weather sins to see if in fact the nation is nearing a critical crisis point.

    God's clear and direct statements there - suggest that we should pay attention to that list.


    The Evolution issue goes directly after the Law of God (Sabbath memorial of a literal 7 day creation week of the form "SIX days you shall labor...for in SIX days the Lord made") and it goes directly after worship of the Creator Himself.

    It is reallly "just a rant" to notice the problem that evolutionism creates given the link between the creation week language quoted above - and worship of the Creator - who declares He is engaged in judgment?

    It is a serious question that cannot be lightly dismissed for the sake of evolutionism.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     

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