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Ending of Mark

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Aug 8, 2003.

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  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Less than 100 years after Pentecost, Papias tells us Mark's Gospel was a transcription of a sermon preached by Peter.

    But the ENDING of Mark has provided great controversy. I do not believe the ending of Mark in my KJV is correct. I did intense study in my post grad work on the "endings" of Mark. I was dumbfounded at the number and variety that seemed to add to the abrupt ending of Peter in his sermon.

    I would close off Mark 16 after v 8. I have read 20 varieties of endings after that (from a sentence to 12 entire verses. There is NO agreement.

    If I were reading the other Gospels and then Mark, I would feel like something was missing, too. Each group began adding their own, or building on other bits from other groups. Amazing to study.

    While there are many small varieties in Greek texts, there are just a few words/spelling differences in Mark 16:1-9 in EVERY Greek text (take your choice - I use Stephanus 1555).

    But there are hundreds of varieties in the next verses!

    Were these later additions? Is their odd assortment of teaching (just READ those verses and ask how often you preach on "believe and be baptized" or "pick up snacks, er snakes" and poison et al) really the inspired Word of God?

    Thoughts.
     
    #1 Dr. Bob, Aug 8, 2003
  2. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    I'll stick with the King James Bible.
     
    #2 RaptureReady, Aug 8, 2003
  3. Gunther

    Gunther New Member

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    Homebound, I used to use the KJV also. I just got tired of the additions.

    Mark was recording sermons from Peter. There is no reason to make Mark fit into the mold of Matthew and Luke. Mark's purpose was different than theirs.
     
    #3 Gunther, Aug 8, 2003
  4. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

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    You would!? So in other words,you dont think that:

    Jesus was risen early on the first day.

    Jesus appeared in another form unto two of them.

    Jesus appeared unto the eleven.

    Jesus told them to go out into all the world,and preach the gospel.

    Jesus was received up into heaven,and sat on the right hand of God.

    Yes,no??

    Tell me,have you ever read 2 Peter 2:1?
     
    #4 Anti-Alexandrian, Aug 8, 2003
  5. Gunther

    Gunther New Member

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    MV-Neverist said
    You would!? So in other words,you dont think that:

    Jesus was risen early on the first day.

    Jesus appeared in another form unto two of them.

    Jesus appeared unto the eleven.

    Jesus told them to go out into all the world,and preach the gospel.

    Jesus was received up into heaven,and sat on the right hand of God.

    Yes,no??

    Tell me,have you ever read 2 Peter 2:1?

    Gunther replys

    I believe all of those things and I still disagree with the KJV's addition. None of those doctrines rests on the extra addition found at the end of Mark 16.

    Btw, I have read 2 Peter 2:1. Could you let us know the relevance instead of trying to hijack another thread?
     
    #5 Gunther, Aug 8, 2003
  6. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Sometimes I really have trouble believing your posts are actually serious.
    :rolleyes:
     
    #6 BrianT, Aug 8, 2003
  7. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    MVNeverist... Been snake handling lately? Drank any poison? Healed anyone by laying your hands on them?

    ... remember, the KJV says:


    Note that the KJV says that believers "shall" do these things... not might, not maybe but "shall".

    If the KJV is correct here and you haven't done these things then you must not be saved.
     
    #7 Scott J, Aug 8, 2003
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I have thought that myself! Somebody who probably believes just like most of us is doing a parody of the most extreme 'only' language!

    That list of questions was offensive to me, implying that if someone [read: ME] thinks some or all of the added words to Mark are not God's Word that you deny fundamental doctrines.

    As my uncle from Northern Minnesota would say, "Lutefisk" :eek:
     
    #8 Dr. Bob, Aug 8, 2003
  9. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    That's odd. In 2003 You do not believe it. In 200 AD Irenaeus believed it. What's wrong with you?

    Mark 16:19 on the KJV said, "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

    Irenaeus quoted, "Also towards the conclusion of his Gospel, Mark says: So then, after the Lord had spoken unto them., He was received up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God."

    In 150 years later B and Aleph MSS removed Mark 16:9-20. Why?

    Jack Moorman quoted, "Are we really to believe that the Gospel of Mark would end in verse 8 with the words, "for they were afraid?" Look at 2 Cor. 12:12 -- Do you reject this verse reflecting Mark 16:9-20?

    These passages were there BEFORE 2 MSS removed them.

    Do you believe in what Jesus said? Faith? Yes or no?

    That's your naturalistic method. :rolleyes:
     
    #9 Askjo, Aug 8, 2003
  10. Mark R

    Mark R New Member

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    Ever read D.O. Fuller's (Princeton) book on the last 12 verses of Mark? He quotes extensively from Dean Burgon's work and concludes that the T.R. is right - It's been a while since I've read it, maybe time to brush up.
     
    #10 Mark R, Aug 8, 2003
  11. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

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    Believe you me,I'm dead serious.
     
    #11 Anti-Alexandrian, Aug 8, 2003
  12. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

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    Okay.If you weren't falling under 1 Cor 2:14 you would see the error of your ways.Touche!!
     
    #12 Anti-Alexandrian, Aug 8, 2003
  13. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

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    #13 Anti-Alexandrian, Aug 8, 2003
  14. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Believe you me,I'm dead serious. </font>[/QUOTE]In Jude 1:25, the NIV has "through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages" while the KJV doesn't. I assume you believe the KJV more accurately represents what was originally written, and that the phrase in the NIV was added sometime later. Does this mean you don't think Jesus Christ is Lord? No, of course it doesn't. And thus neither does it mean that Dr. Bob doesn't think Jesus was received up into heaven and sat on the right hand of God, just because he thinks that phrase in Mark was added to scripture.

    That's why I sometimes don't think your posts are serious - because you post things that are *so easily* shown to contain faulty reasoning.
     
    #14 BrianT, Aug 8, 2003
  15. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Very good info, Askjo. This forum would be much more profitable for all involved if more posts were like this. [​IMG]
     
    #15 BrianT, Aug 8, 2003
  16. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    MV-neverist makes the following extremist claims:

    So in other words,you dont think that:

    Jesus was risen early on the first day.

    Mark 16:6 tells us that.

    Jesus appeared in another form unto two of them.

    Luke 24:15-16 tells us that.

    Jesus appeared unto the eleven.

    Luke 24:36 tells us that.

    Jesus told them to go out into all the world,and preach the gospel.

    Matthew 28:18-20 tells us that.

    Jesus was received up into heaven,and sat on the right hand of God.

    Mark 14:62, Acts 1:9-11, and Acts 2:33 tell us that.

    Tell me,have you ever read 2 Peter 2:1?

    Tell me, have you ever read anything other than Mark 16:9-20?

    If you had, you would have found all those other teachings you falsely implied were omitted if you omitted that spurious ending to the Gospel.

    Also, you would not have had to resort to the outright dishonesty of saying we did not believe them.
     
    #16 Ransom, Aug 8, 2003
  17. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    There are some who exercised their belief in
    Mk. 16:18 and ended up dead. Anybody have a testimony who could tell otherwise? How many are willing to trust Mk. 16:18 and are willing to bet their life on that verse.

    I cannot of think of one example where Jesus was a snake handler. I can rememember when He referred to some as serpents and John referred to some as vipers.
     
    #17 gb93433, Aug 8, 2003
  18. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Okay.If you weren't falling under 1 Cor 2:14 you would see the error of your ways.</font>[/QUOTE]Are you accusing me of being unsaved because I reject your error? You have yet to show any "error in my ways" concerning this subject. In fact, you routinely resort to cowardly evasion just as you have done here.

    Hardly. Just answer the question if you have the intelligence and courage to actually do so.

    The KJV says believers "shall" do those things. That leaves you with four options: 1- you haven't done those things, never will and thus are unsaved, 2- you will some day do these things but so many others who have gone faithfully before without doing them were lost, 3- you have already done them, or 4- the KJV is incorrect in this passage.

    To answer your accusation, I am saved and quite certain that the Holy Spirit has guided me correctly on this subject.
     
    #18 Scott J, Aug 9, 2003
  19. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    1 Corinthians 1:18.. </font>[/QUOTE]1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    Now accusing Dr. Bob of being unsaved as well... not to mention grossly abusing scripture in order to do it. Someone who has so little respect for the correct use of God's Word might want to take a look at 2 Cor 13:5.

    BTW, please point to which of your previous babbling posts were anything akin to "preaching of the cross".
     
    #19 Scott J, Aug 9, 2003
  20. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Honest-to-goodness I thought the KJV-only stuff was Landover Baptist-style parody. At first, it caused me to wonder if this was really some atheist parody site. (Same thing with "Ladies Against Feminism")

    Joshua
     
    #20 Rev. Joshua, Aug 9, 2003
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