English words in a different sense

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Logos1560, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    I came across a book that includes "a short vocabulary" that "gives the signification of some old English words, used in this translation, but not commonly spoke, or written in this age, at least not in that sense in which our translators took them."

    Would anyone be interested in guessing which translation was being defended in this book?

    Could you guess the time period when this book was written?
     
  2. Keith M

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    I think you want us to guess the KJV, Logos1560. But I'm going to guess the book in question was defending either the Revised Version of 1881/1885 or else the American Standard Version of 1901. I would guess the book in question ws written circa 1915-1920. Am I anywhere close to being in the right ballpark?
     
  3. Logos1560

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    I did think that people would guess it was the KJV. However, in this case, it was an older English version being defended. The book in question was printed in 1706. It was written in defense of the Psalter or book of Psalms of the Great Bible.

    This. the words in its short vocabulary come from the Psalm of the 1539 Great Bible or from one of the later editions of the Great Bible, especially the edition used in the Book of Common Prayer. The "our translators" being referred to were William Tyndale, Miles Coverdale, and John Rogers.

    The title of this 1706 book was Holy David and His Old English Translators Cleared. Its text can be found and viewed at books.google. This book includes the text of the Psalms of the Great Bible. It has a long unpaged preface. The text of the Psalms starts on page 1. If you go to page 1, and then scroll back a few pages, you will find the "A Short Vocabulary" on the pages just before the text of the Psalms.

    The author of this book is not listed on the title page of the book, but several sources claim that the author was John Johnson (1662-1725).

    In listing and defining "some old English words" "not commonly spoke, or written in this age, at least not in that sense in which our translators took them," the author notes that some of them were still used in that old sense "by our last translators" [referring to the KJV translators].
     
  4. Logos1560

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    An example of an "old English word" in the Psalms of the Great Bible listed by John Johnson is "flood."
    He maintained that "flood" was used with the meaning "a river or stream" at Psalm 72:8 and 89:25. The 1568 Bishops' Bible also had the same rendering as the Great Bible at these two verses, but the 1611 KJV updated them.

    On the other hand, John Johnson asserted that "our last translation" [the KJV] uses it in this sense at Joshua 24:8 and Psalm 98:8.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    JUst as an aside point of interest, te word "flood" in English is a poetical form of referring to a river; a stream; a sea.........So, using the word flood and translating it as river is not out of acceptance in English.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Jerome

    Jerome
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    That's Joshua 24:3
     
  7. franklinmonroe

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    Also Joshua 24:2 of the KJV, plus 24:14 & 15. Additionally, "flood" (in the sense of 'river' or 'stream') occurs in Psalm 24:2, 66;6, 74:15, 93:3, and 98:8; four times in Job; twice in Jeremiah (both in Chapter 46); and several others.
     
  8. Logos1560

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    Yes, Joshua 24:3 is the correct reference. The 8 in my post was a typing error on my part.
     
  9. Logos1560

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    Three other examples in this 1706 "a Short Vocabulary" of "old English words" used in a different sense than our translators took them include:

    "health"
    Johnson indicated that "our last translation" [the KJV] also used this word in a different sense at Psalm 42:11.

    "imagine" meaning "to controive, plot, design" Psalm 2:1

    "prevent"
     
  10. franklinmonroe

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    The KJV uses "health" in the sense of 'salvation' at Psalm 42:11. The Hebrew word there is yeshuw'ah (Strong's #3444) which is rendered in the KJV as "salvation" 65 of 78 occurences. It is also translated as "health" in two other verses: Psalm 43:5 (which is word-for-word the same as Psalm 42:11), and Psalm 67:2. Of course, the resemblance to yehowshua' (the proper name Joshua, meaning 'Jehovah is salvation') should be obvious. Many versions render the word "salvation" in these instances.

    "Salvation or divine favor, or grace" is listed as the third definition of HEALTH in Webster's 1828 Dictionary. "Salvation" is not listed as a possible definition in the more current dictionaries I examined.
     
    #10 franklinmonroe, Jan 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2009
  11. Logos1560

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    One current dictionary the multi-volume Oxford English Dictionary does include this use of health, but it is not likely found in most current one-volume English dictionaries as the ones you examined.

    The pre-1611 English Bibles used "health" in a different sense in a number of verses. An archaic use of "health" at Luke 19:9 in Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, and Great Bibles was updated to "salvation" in the KJV. The Oxford English Dictionary gave the following definition as an archaic use of the word health: "spiritual, moral, or mental soundness or well-being, salvation" (Vol. VII, p. 53). Likewise, "great health" at 1 Samuel 14:45 in Coverdale's was changed to "great salvation" in the KJV. The Oxford English Dictionary cited this verse in Coverdale's as an example of the use of "health" with the meaning "well-being, welfare, safety, deliverance" (Vol. VII, p. 54). Coverdale’s and Bishops’ have “health” at 1 Samuel 19:5 where the KJV has “salvation.“ Again, the KJV replaced "health" in Coverdale's Bible at 2 Samuel 22:51 with "salvation." Other examples are "health" at Psalm 51:14 and 119:123 in Coverdale's, Matthew’s, and Great Bibles that were revised to "salvation" in the KJV. Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, and Bishops’ have “health” at Isaiah 46:13 while the Geneva and KJV have “salvation.“ At Isaiah 59:11, Coverdale’s, Geneva, and Bishops’ have “health,” which was updated to “salvation” in the KJV. Coverdale’s and Bishops’ have “health” at Isaiah 49:6 and Jeremiah 3:23 where the KJV has “salvation.“ The 1540 Great and 1568 Bishops’ Bibles have “preacheth health” at Isaiah 52:7 where the KJV has “publisheth salvation.“ Coverdale‘s has “saving health“ at several verses (Ps. 9:14, 13:5, 14:7, 21:1, etc.). Coverdale‘s, Great, and Bishops‘ Bibles also have “saving health“ at Isaiah 51:8 and 52:10. "Horn of health" at Luke 1:69, "science of health" at Luke 1:77, “gospel of your health“ at Ephesians 1:13, "helmet of health" at Ephesians 6:17, “health by faith” at 2 Timothy 3:15 and “common health” at Jude 3 in Wycliffe's Bible are other examples of an archaic usage of this word. The 1535 Coverdale’s, 1540 Great, and 1568 Bishops’ Bibles had “helmet of health” at Isaiah 59:17. The 1535 Coverdale’s also used the rendering “healthoffering” several times (Lev. 4:26, etc). The KJV retained an archaic use of this same word at Psalm 42:11, 43:5, and 67:2. Is “health” a more accurate, venerable, or majestic word than “salvation?“ Coverdale's, Matthew’s, and Geneva Bibles had "help" instead of "health" at Psalm 42:11 while the 1568 edition of Bishops' had "salvation." The old 1569 and 1602 Spanish Bibles also had a word salud [health] that was sometimes used to mean salvation just as “health“ was in the pre-1611 English Bibles. This Spanish word has been updated to salvacion [salvation] in some later editions of Spanish Bibles.
     
  12. Jim1999

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    The Oxford dictionary 0f 1910 does not list health as relating to salvation, but under healthful it does read, "health-giving; conducive to moral or spiritual welfare."

    It was not uncommon in England to wish someone "good health to you" meaning the same as spiritual blessings. So even in my age group, health was related to spiritual matters.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     

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