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Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Salamander, Feb 3, 2009.

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  1. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Uh-huh, but now apply the modern understanding and HONESTLY make that same claim.:sleeping_2:
     
    #61 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
  2. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Again the problem is your contextualization, not the English language (KJV1611 or otherwise).
     
    #62 Mexdeaf, Feb 4, 2009
  3. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    translated virgin the meaning is the same, translated maiden the meaning is the same, translated young woman the meaning changes.

    I accept that, I would not use a translation that uses "young woman". But what about the others?
     
    #63 thegospelgeek, Feb 4, 2009
  4. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Why not 'young woman' since that is indeed the meaning? There is actually another Hebrew word for virgin- 'bethulah'. Surely the Lord would have used that word had He wanted to.

    And again, I would suggest that the problem is improper contextualization rather than poor interpretation.
     
    #64 Mexdeaf, Feb 4, 2009
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know that is the only major translation to make that choice. But that doesn't stop some from proclaiming their baseless charge against the "MV"s regarding this passage. One translation makes all versions guilty.
     
    #65 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 4, 2009
  6. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    The sources I read do not support that almah means "young woman" but that it could mean young woman, maiden, virgin. Other translations chose virgin.

    This supports what I said about using KJ as a validator. It has worked for the English language for many years and is time tested. KJ chose virgin. NKJ chose virgin. NASB chose virgin. ASV chose virgin. ESV chose virgin. They are much smarter than I so I'll stick with virgin.

    However just because I don't like RSV, why should I throw out (delete would be more acurate) my ASV or ESV?
     
    #66 thegospelgeek, Feb 4, 2009
  7. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    From Vines

     
    #67 thegospelgeek, Feb 4, 2009
  8. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Okey-dokey. I'm not wanting to pick a fight with you, or Mr. Vines for that matter.:laugh: :thumbs:
     
    #68 Mexdeaf, Feb 4, 2009
  9. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Nope, the problem is that everyone doesn't hold to the modernization of the contextualizations according to the ever-changing societies.

    The English of the 1611 is preserved in contextualiztion.

    I love it when a Spanish speaking individual attempts to teach English!:laugh:
     
    #69 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
  10. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    The idea of "a young woman" leaves one to the choice as whether the female is a virgin while "virgin" makes no distinction to the age of the female, but leaves no room for error as to whether she is a virgin.

    Maiden: an unmarried girl or woman

    I see no distinction made here either of her virginity, eyt many unmarrieds are virgins but definitely not all are virgins.

    "Virgin" makes the unquestionable determination.
     
    #70 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I am grateful for this who speak more than one language, they really help us with grammar in our own language.

    Mexdeaf is an American who is fluent in at least 3 languages:

    English
    ASL
    Spanish
    and I would guess Mexican Sign Language?

    Wish I had the smarts he has to deal with language.
     
    #71 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 4, 2009
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Why are we fighting over a rendering that only appears in one major translation that is really no longer is use?
     
    #72 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 4, 2009
  13. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    yet you would leave people at the mercy of the deceiver to not know whether or not Mary was a virgin.

    I believe the true contextualization DEMANDS the use of "virgin".
     
    #73 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
  14. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    And I love it when people jump to conclusions about me because of my nom-de-plume. I was born in the USA and never learned Spanish until I was 40 years old. Plus I can spell 'veracity'.:laugh:
     
    #74 Mexdeaf, Feb 4, 2009
  15. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    As far as i know no one has made the claim of guilt here, but clarity is in question when a word is shown to not be the "best".

    I believe I have shown the word "virgin" to be best.
     
    #75 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
  16. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    It is quite clear from the Scriptures that she was indeed a virgin even if you do not use Isa. 7:14 for proof. The Devil had nothing to do with it.
     
    #76 Mexdeaf, Feb 4, 2009
  17. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    It would all have to do with the acceptance of leaven in the mix.
     
    #77 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
  18. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any serious Bible scholars have any problem with this passage, but I do think that virgin is the only translation since thats how Matthew translates it.
     
    #78 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 4, 2009
  19. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    No insult to his education, but the proofs are overwhelming that "virgin" is best, no matter the learning of an individual.

    I find it strange that some one would consider it "better" for an individual fluent in at least three languages to have any authority over the proofs of contextualizations by his insinuations according to his fluency, or lack thereof.

    You are turning this into something personal and that is NOT my intention.

    FOUL!
     
    #79 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
  20. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    What;s not in use? It is another proof why we should stick with that which is tried, proven, and true.
     
    #80 Salamander, Feb 4, 2009
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