Enmity Against God

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Rom. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Just recently this board experienced a very vivid illustration of the proof of this very text. A lost man came on this board displaying exactly what this text describes about every single lost person who comes into this world.

    The lost man may vary in the intensity of his "enmity" against God. This "enmity" may be expressed RELIGIOUSLY and through DEVOUT committment to false doctrine or it may be expressed by the extreme illustration we all experienced through the gutter like expressions of this recent lost man. It may fall in between the two extremes and simply be complete disregard for God at all in his life or any other level of manifest shortcoming of the glory of God's law as sin is coming short of the glory of God as that glory is manifest by the Law - His righteous standard.

    Those who would like to deny Romans 8:7 applies to all lost people must jerk it out of context to do so.

    In context Paul further defines this Romans 8:7 condition to be EQUAL to the words "in the flesh" in Romans 8:8:

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Note that the same incapability is expressed in Romans 8:8 as in Romans 8:7 - "cannot" This incapability to please God describes all that are "in the flesh" which is being used by Paul as a conclusion to those being described in Romans 8:7!

    So those who deny Romans 8:7 refers to all lost men must also deny that all lost men are equally described as being "in the flesh."

    However, in Romans 8:9 Paul contrasts only one other kind of human being from those "in the flesh" and it is those "in the Spirit" and Paul says if they are not "in the Spirit" it is because "THEY ARE NONE OF HIS" and thus that leave only the Lost or those referred to as "in the flesh."

    Therefore it is contextually impossible to deny that Romans 8:7 refers to all lost mankind. It is contextually impossible to say that Romans 8:7 only refers to a special class of very wicked lost men because Paul leaves no other alternative to those "in the Spirit" but those who are "NONE OF HIS" which he describes as those "in the flesh" (Rom. 8:9) which is the phrase used to describe those in Romans 8:7 (Rom. 8:8).

    So one must be DISHONEST with the context of Romans 8:7 to deny this refers to the state of all lost men because Paul sees no THIRD CLASS of humans but only TWO - you are either "in the flesh" or "in the Spirit" and if you are not "in the Spirit" then you are "NOT ONE OF HIS."

    P.S. Romans 8:7-9 also denies that the elect come into this world in any other condition but "in the flesh" even as others.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Apr 25, 2012
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  2. savedbymercy

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    That is correct, and the carnal mind that is enmity against God is merely man by nature, the Natural mind.

    And this mind cannot be subject to the Law of God, because , God 's Law is Spiritual and Holy Rom 7:14

    For we know that the law is spiritual: but I[The Old man] am carnal, sold under sin.

    The old man is not subject to the law of God ! This word Law is the greek word nomos
    and means:

    anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

    a) of any law whatsoever

    1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God

    a) by the observance of which is approved of God

    2) a precept or injunction

    Now, scripture says that to believe on Jesus Christ is a command, for Paul answering the Jailor said Acts 16:31

    30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

    31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    In the greek this word believe is an imperative which is defined as:

    The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

    It is a command or a Law.

    Now if the carnal mind is not subject to the command or Law of God per Rom 8:7, then how could the Jailor obey without being already saved by New Birth or Regeneration ?

    Titus 3:5

    5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    So only one who has been saved by the Spirit's application of the New Birth can Believe on Christ as commanded !
     
  3. The Biblicist

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    Do you believe God gives sinners a "NEW" heart (Exek. 36:26)? Do you believe that the "new" heart which God gives is a DIFFERENT heart than what they previously had? Wasn't their previous heart an "heart of unbelief"???

    Hence, God gives a BELIEVING HEART as "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness." The very state of the heart when given is a BELIEVING heart and thus regeneration and saving faith are simeltaneous in action. There is no such thing as an unregenerated beleiver any more than there is such a thing as a regenerated unbeliever. I Jn 5:1 proves this grammatically as does Ephesians 2:8-10. We are "saved through faith" not apart from it and "saved" in Ephesians 2:10 is a synonym of "quickened" (Ephes. 2:1, 5) and a synonym of being "created in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:10).
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Apr 25, 2012
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  4. Moriah

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    Not everyone’s mind is always on the flesh and wondering how to please it.
    That scripture is a perfect example of things that Paul says that people misunderstand. People in false doctrines use that scripture to support their error.
    Notice Paul did not say all humans all the time. Paul is not speaking about all humans all the time, but rather, Paul is speaking about those living to please the flesh AND WHEN they are living to please the flesh.
    Romans 8:7 says, “the mind(g) set on the flesh is hostile to God. “ Not everyone’s mind is set on the flesh! Notice that Paul is concentrating his teaching about this on those who are under the law. Those under the law have their mind set on the flesh because by nature that is what the law is about---the flesh! However, God has given a NEW LAW, the NEW TESTAMENT, the NEW COVENANT, it is the PERFECT LAW, it is about SPIRITUAL things, FROM GOD. God kept these things HIDDEN before, but NOW REVEALED, a better way, and a better hope is now revealed. The Creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen HAS revealed to us the HIDDEN THINGS. We now have life through the Spirit revealed to us, a way of life now possible through the shed blood of the Lamb of God.

    They are non of His because they love darkness instead of the light.
    Again, God has made a better way to live and think. It was NOT KNOWN BEFORE. It is a POWERFUL MESSAGE; it is a message that saves! There is no other message like it. There is no other name in which we are offered salvation.

    We did not come to know Christ while we were indulging in impurity...we came to know Christ when we HEARD of him and were TAUGHT, with regard to our former way of life, to put off our old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of our minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. See Ephesians 4:18-24. THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD.
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    Yes, everyone of the Covenant People receive a New Heart when they are begotten again by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead. 1 Pet 1:3

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ[Covenant Head], which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The word here begotten is the greek word :anagennaō


    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    That is the fulfillment of Ezk 36:26

    26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
     
  6. Moriah

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    Do not add things to the Bible. You said, “Wasn’t their previous heart an “heart of unbelief?” NO. The Bible does not say that. You ask the question as if it really does say that. Nowhere does the scriptures say that God will make unbelievers believe by giving them a new heart first.
    Let the reader see how Biblicist took something that he only thought of, that something that is NOT there, he made it sound like the Bible says it, and then he joined it together with other scriptures and supported a false doctrine that was started the same way he just demonstrated!
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    Enmity against God remains with the Believer, because, though He himself is an New Creation, the Flesh, which his firt birth consits of, remains, and it remains at enmity against God, thus the warfare of the Believer with himself Gal 5:17

    17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    The flesh and the spirit here are the different seeds that the believer has been born out of.

    In His Physical Birth out of Adam, he is flesh, but out of His Spiritual Birth out of Christ, the Incorruptible Seed, the Logos of God, He is Spiritual See 1 Pet 1:23

    However, that flesh man that he is by natural birth, will be changed and adopted into the Family of God at the Second Coming, that is what Paul means here Phil 3:21

    21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    same thing here 1 Cor 15:52

    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Enmity against God remains in the Believer until Christ comes or his personal death !
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    I will believe Paul over you! He divides all men into one of two classes "in the flesh" versus "in the Spirit" and those he describes in Romans 8:7 are those "in the flesh" according to Paul in Rom. 8:8

    So you are perverting and repudiating the Word of God that you confess you love. No, you hate the word of God and your words prove it.
     
  9. The Biblicist

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    You don't know what you are talking about! John 3:17-18 clearly and explicitly condemns all men coming into the world because of unbelief. To suggest that the "new" heart God gives is no better than the old heart he already has is rediculous!

    The new covenant includes God giving a "new" heart (Ezek. 36:26) and that is the same "new" covenant spoken of in Hebrews 8 and 10 as well as in 2 Cor. 3:3-6. To say that God gives an UNBELIEVING heart is equally rediculous. You don't know what you are talking about, you haven't known what you talk about, but your speaking pure foolishness.
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    No it does not, because unbelief condemns no one, sins against the Law does. And the Elect, those Christ died for are born Justified before God from all sin against God's Law.

    They are born also reconciled to God by the death of His Son Rom 5:10 !
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    Your are equallly Biblical illerate as Moriah! No one comes into this world as a beleiver and what Jesus says this condemnation is about is UNBELIEF. They are condemened already because they come into the world already as unbelievers. Don't twist God's word to suit your false doctrines!
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


    Ask yourself why God did not send His Son into the world to condemn it (v. 17)? ANSWER: "but he that beleiveth not is CONDEMNED ALREADY"

    Why is he condemned already? ANSWER: "BECAUSE he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"

    Ask yourself who is that has not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God? ANSWER: Every single human born into this world as none come into this world as believers in Christ.

    So simple, so clear, and yet what keeps you from receiving the truth is your false doctrines.
     
  13. billwald

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    "That is correct, and the carnal mind that is enmity against God is merely man by nature, the Natural mind.

    "And this mind cannot be subject to the Law of God, because , God 's Law is Spiritual and Holy Rom 7:14"

    "SUBJECT TO" means what?????????? Is a person who blows a stop sign limit "subject to" the traffic law?

    A person who is not "subject to" a law can not be charged with violating the law. For example, in England a driver must stay on the left side of a two lane road but a driver in the US can not be charged with violating that law. He is not subject to it.
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    Use your spell checker ! , but no one said anything about anyone coming into the world already a believer.

    The elect come into the world a unbeliever, but Justified and reconciled to God, by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10,19

    They are never, can never be condemned, because Christ has satisfied God's Law and Justice on their behalf. You deny that Christ's Blood has satisfied God's Justice, for all those Christ died for, not unless they do something. So you deny the Blood of Christ, and the Value that God Placed on it and Justified those He shed it for ! You deny that !
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    Don't give me that hop and jump type of hermeneutics! We are talking about the meaning of John 3:17-18. Your admission proves your interpretation of John 3:17-18 is wrong.

    Totally unbibilical and pure false doctrine. You are pitting one scripture against another scripture simply because you will not accept God's own words "I have purposed it, I WILL do it." There is no such nonsensical DOUBLE REALITY taught in God's Word.
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Use spell checker.

    And I repeat:



    The elect come into the world a unbeliever, but Justified and reconciled to God, by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10,19

    They are never, can never be condemned, because Christ has satisfied God's Law and Justice on their behalf. You deny that Christ's Blood has satisfied God's Justice, for all those Christ died for, not unless they do something. So you deny the Blood of Christ, and the Value that God Placed on it and Justified those He shed it for ! You deny that !
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    AND as such , ALL of us are until we are washed in/by the blood of the lamb!

    How and when washed?

    God applies that towards us spiritually when we call upon the name of jesus, when we belive in him and are thus saved!
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    what did jesus answer?

    this is to do the work that God requires, to believe in the name of the One that he sent forth, and to have eternal life in his name!

    beleive/have faith Jesus and John agree, and paul and peter, why not you?
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    Use your head and think for a change! John 3:17-18 is inclusive of the elect as well as non elect and they come into this world UNDER CONDEMNATION and without justification and that is precisely why they need to be justified.

    Your doctrine of eternal justification is an offence to God and rejection of the gospel of JEsus Christ and "another gospel" that is accursed and originates with demons straight from hell.
     
  20. The Biblicist

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    Not one person who has opposed this OP has been able to overturn the exposition I have provided. No one has pointed out where I have made any exegetical mistake in my exposition of Romans 8:7-9.

    What they have done is run and jump to other scriptures in order to PIT other scriptures against this text but they have not been able to point to any flaw in my exegesis/exposition of this text - no one!
     

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