Enron's Skilling Gets 24 Years

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Daisy, Oct 24, 2006.

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  1. Daisy

    Daisy
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    It would be nice if some of those millions confiscated went to the victims of this scam, but that seems unlikely.
     
  2. hillclimber1

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    As part of the resolution of the case, Skilling also agreed to turn over what his lawyers called the "overwhelming majority" of his assets, about $45 million, including the proceeds from the sale of his Mediterranean-style mansion, to employees who lost more than $1 billion with Enron's demise.
     
  3. Not_hard_to_find

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    That would help, if only a bit! Last night's newscast regarding Skilling mentioned that his attorneys would appeal later when people were not so much against him.

    We can hope that people won't forget -- but we know they are prone to do so.
     
  4. Daisy

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    Missed that, thanks!

    Of course, there were also the energy users in the Northwest who got swindled as well as regular investors. But I'm glad that the employees got something back.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    And a child molester gets banned to Canada after his conviction, on a year's probation. He was caught molesting a fifteen year old in his motorcar.

    We would rather get the executive. We are used to them.

    Some justice!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    Perhaps this shows a fundamental problem in American life. It's all about the money. If this sentence is upheld, Skilling will spend more time in prison than many murderers, rapists, child molesters, and drug dealers.

    And all Skilling may have done was cost someone some money. He didn't take a life. He didn't ruin som poor child's innocence. He didn't dispense drugs. He didn't rape a woman.

    I am not saying Skilling should get no time. But this was a high profile case that was all about "money."

    Would to God we could get some common sense in our judicial system that would deal with real problems.
     
  7. Not_hard_to_find

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    From my point of view it wasn't just about money. It was about the reckless wrong done to thousands of people whose lives were damaged -- and because of the stress, their health. Even Lay's early death is assumed to have been impacted due to stress.

    Is any person's damage greater because there was no money involved. Or truly is the root of all evil the love of money.

    And, no -- no one in my family or my friends' families worked for Enron.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    First, that is indication of the problem. People are so attached to money that it brings stress. If our values are on things above, we don't have stress over it.

    But that's not my point. My point is that Skilling gets more time in prison than people who have killed others, molested children, raped women, and the like.

    How does that make sense? Is not life more important than money? If it is, why do people who merely do something wrong with money get more time in prison than those who hurt life?

    As a general principle, when you invest money, you know the risks. I lost about 70% of a very sizable investment (more than 1/2 of my total portfolio at the time). I lost it in a matter of six hours, due to a reporting violation. There is a class action lawsuit that has been settled. I won't get much back, but I will get some. But i didn't lose sleep over it. It's just money. When I die, it would have all stayed here anyway.
     
  9. Magnetic Poles

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    Honestly managed investments aren't the issue. It is fraud and hiding of facts, harming thousands of children and their parents. I can only hope that Joe Nacchio is next to join Skilling and Ebbers in prison.
     
  10. mozier

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    The thing is, you know what is going to happen.

    First, Skilling's sentence will either be overturned on appeal, or he will have it significantly reduced.

    After spending some time in Club Fed, he will then get out and do a book deal, followed by a miniseries.

    Next, he will get a gig as a "guest lecturer" at an Ivy League school. Then he will appear on the cover of FORBES as "the comeback kid of American Business," with his smug face looking at you as if to say, "heh heh heh."

    You know it will happen.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    The investment I was referrign to was not honestly managed. That is why there was a lawsuit decided in favor of the investors, in case you didn't read that.

    I doubt very seriously that many families and children were harmed by this. According to reports, most of the money was in retirement plans, not daily living expenses. Some were harmed, no doubt due to lost jobs, but that probably would have happened anyway since even if there had been no mismanagement the company would have survived. Lost retirement plans affect older people, not families with children.

    Now, don't dare say that I think this is unimportant or that Skilling should be let off. Quite frankly, I don't know whether he is guilty or not. I didn't follow the trial that closely. But in terms of actual harm, there probably wasn't that much.

    None of which was my point. It would be better not to try to miss this: Skilling will get more time than many murderers, child molesters, rapists, drug dealers, and other violent criminals. And that is not right. Skilling is no danger to anyone. That doesn't mean he should be let loose. It does mean we need to examine our judicial priorities.
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

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    So retirement money isn't stealing, because it doesn't cover current expenses? Go ahead and roll your 401k to me then. ;)

    These guys hurt many people, whether you like it or not. When they are on public assistance, it will affect many more. This is far worse than hurting one person. Skilling got what he deserved...Lay escaped justice.

    Like I said before, I am eagerly awaiting seeing Messrs. Ebbers & Skilling be joined by Mr. Nacchio.
     
  13. Not_hard_to_find

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    Only here.
     
  14. Terry_Herrington

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    How magnanimous of you, Larry.
    It seems very callous to me for you to simply dismiss the lost retirement savings of hundreds of innocent people just because they are old.
     
  15. Magnetic Poles

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    Don't be surprised. This is not Larry's first time to show his callous lack of compassion for others.

    Larry, you sir will be old one day. I hope no one cheats you out of your money.
     
  16. Daisy

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    You have a point (but if you'd wear a hat....yuk, yuk), it is only money that he stole. The brownouts and rolling blackouts in the Northwest probably didn't kill anyone and he probably wasn't directly responsible even if he did make obscene profits from the scheme.

    But America is capitalistic. Isn't that one of the main ways we distinguished ourselves from the communists back in the Cold War days?

    If Skilling had stolen the life savings of one or two families, he probably would not have gotten the sentence he did, but the company he helped run stole millions upon millions of dollars from employees, investors and energy consumers. I think the sheer number of victims hiked up his sentence. That and his noncooperation with the government. The sentence is meant to be punitive and perhaps serve as a deterrent - it may very well be reduced in a few years, I don't know.

    He is not going to Club Fed because the length of his sentence qualifies him for medium security, not minimum.
     
  17. Terry_Herrington

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    I hope he does lose all his money when he is old, then he will truly understand what these poor people are facing.

    Of course, "Pastor" Larry makes his living off of other people's generosity. Good for him, they don't have his attitude.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    It should not surprise us that the usual suspects are being dishonest, and engaging in personal attack. And yet it does. So let’s address these things in the interest of honesty, and hope that repentance is forthcoming from those who so callously mistreat the words of others.

    Who said that? You need to go back and read closely. I never said anything about stealing. The particular charge that I was responding to was the assertion that “families and children were hurt.” They weren’t because “families and children” do not live off of 401Ks, as you well know, or at least should know. I think families and children were hurt, but probably by the lost jobs, not the investments. Those investments could not be touched until 59 ½ ( I believe), and by that time, most people have grandchildren and great grandchildren.

    So look at the context of the comment, and don’t make up stuff.

    As for my 401K, you can have every dime of it.

    I don’t disagree that people were hurt by lost jobs. I don’t disagree that losing retirement money is horrible. But if you go back and look at what I said in this thread, my main point is that Skilling got more than many murderers, rapists, child molesters, and drug dealers.

    So to refresh your memory, let me remind you of what I said by quoting myself.

    Your dishonesty in putting words in my mouth is completely unacceptable. Skilling deserves to go to jail. For how long? I don’t know. But when he gets more than murderers, rapists, child molesters, drug dealers, etc. something’s wrong. Do you disagree?

    Show where I “simply dismissed the lost retirement savings.” I never did any such thing. If you would actually read what was said with an ounce of integrity, you would know that I never said that. I was responding to a very specific charge.

    In case you are still confused, read this loud and clear: These guys appear to have been fraudulent (based on the news reports). The fact that people lost their 401Ks is absolutely horrible and unacceptable.

    Where did I show a “callous lack of compassion,” either here or previously? I think you are being dishonest here, or at least misreading the posts. Both have happened before so I am not sure what to think about it.

    I feel like it already.

    Me too. No one should ever be cheated out of their money. And if you think I have in any way defended that, then you don’t read very well.

    That’s very kind of you, Terry. What drives your hatred and vitriol? Do you feel better about yourself now? Does this completely unwarranted personal attack on someone help you somehow? You remember a private message you sent me several years ago? I believed you then. What has changed? Why do you let political disagreements turn so nasty and personal? That makes no sense to me. I have no issue with strong disagreement and heated exchange. But wishing I would lose all my money when I am old? Sheesh ...

    And what attitude is that? The attitude that criminals should be punished? Yes, that is a horrible attitude to have. The attitude that Skilling should go to jail? Yes, hopefully no one has that attitude. The attitude that losing retirement money is bad? Yes, God forbid that anyone should have that attitude. The attitude that honesty is important? Yes, that would totally ruin our society. I hope no one is inflicted with such attitudes.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    I totally agree. ...
     
  20. Terry_Herrington

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    Quit playing the poor victim. You know I don't have any actual concern with what happens to you or your money. I was simply pointing out the lack of concern you showed for many who actually did lose their money. BTW, you keep mentioning that PM from years ago. It was a PM and it was years ago. Get over it.
     
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