Entire Sanctification/Sinless Perfection

well Im glad to see at least somebody gets it.

 

The ONLY conditions for salvation is Faith or which repentence is a by product. You can't exactly repent if you don't believe you need to.

Any thing a person will add to faith FOR salvation is works because you have to in some way prove yourself worthy. When in fact you weren't, aren't, and never will be. Christ is the only worthy sacrifice for your sins and He imparts that to those who believe. This is why it is not our righteousness but His righteousness in us.
And is why scripture states "it is because of grace you ARE savED THROUGH faith, and NOT of yourselves but is a GIFT. NOT of works

Works are anything you do that can be added or taken away from salvation. Either Christ Jesus was suffient in His atoning work and PAID the FULL penalty of OUR sins or He was insuffient in what He did and we have to do... to help make up the gap of our salvation with our own righteousness. After all it will work, right??

 

Somebody 'round here been smokin' some really good stuff! :thumbsup: :laugh: :tongue3:

Ed

 

Actually more than one has apparently been smokin' the 'good stuff'!

Ed

 

honestly, the Bible is full of conditions, in both the old testament as well as the new... I have a hard time understanding why that is so difficult for some to see.

Like this simple condition, for instance,

Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

or this,

Romans 8:
1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


but it seems like in every since instance, I notice, people will just come up with this stuff like "oh that doesnt apply to salvation" or "oh thats just for the Jews" or some excuse like that, I mean seriously it gets ridiculous and I dont know that they must sit up for quite awhile dreaming up these excuses.

Its like as if they read the verses about faith and then they think that just nulls out everything else... instead of harmonizing the scriptures.

Oh I forgot the other one... "well its talking about the kingdom and not about heaven"...

 

HP uses the analogy of being sentenced to prison for life as Salvation not by works which is stupid. A "life" sentence in prison is 20 years and I don't care if you spit in the wardens face every day for 20 years when your sentence is up you are out!

Claudia agrees with him that Salvation is not by works.

I have written the very thing, because "works" are being preached on here every day. The SDA is a WORKS Religion!

Ed.............well, you know!

 

Thats because you seem to be incapable of listening to and of comprehending what is really being said. You do that a whole lot. and yep, you are going to have to actually get off of your dead.... faith ....and actually DO something. wow what a concept!

If you choose to just close your eyes to verses like these and hope they will just go away because you dont look at them, hey, be my guest! and if you want to say James was promoting a "works religion" then hey, count me in!

James 2
14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

Well, we have two men that live close to each other.

Both of them are unsaved.

One of them prays to God to forgive him and said for I am a sinner.

The other one brags on how much he has done for the poor and paid his tithes and everything.

Well, according to those on this board, both of them had works but guess which one the Lord justified?

The one with a praying heart.

Both of these men knew there was a God, and both were praying to God. The difference is one of them had a repentant heart.

You go so far with this "no works" thing that you want to take prayer and repentance out of it and without prayer and repentance, "good luck", but luck don't get you to Heaven.! Except ye repent, you shall die in your sins. Why would anyone have a fault in that. Do they want to go to Heaven and keep on sinning? Someone tell me Why, there must be a Why?

Seems to me you have to have faith and ask God to forgive you of your sins. Call it works all you want but If a man parties all his life with rioteous living, he will die and go to a devil's hell.

 

Shiloh,

This is for you,

Ti:1:16: They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


wow what a concept! this is talking about people who CLAIM to be Christians... they "profess" to know God it says... but they are LYING. Get it??? whats this based on? their WORKS, read it.

THEN go tell James and Titus both that they are "promoting a works religion!"
oh Wahhhhhhhhhhh!!


*sorry but this really gets old after awhile

Claudia

 

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I have NEVER preached a "works" Salvation, quite the contrary as you Scripture Twisters well know.

Claudia, IF you are not (which your writings say otherwise) "preaching" a works salvation ......you are the FIRST JW or SDA's that doesn't!

 

A person is not Saved by works.

A person is not Kept Saved by works.

A Christian "Works" because they are Saved.

Ed the Onager put that in YOUR pipe and smoke it.

 

The Bible has absolutly NO contradictions in it. Your theology shows forth contradirctions but the bible is with flaw concerning contradictions. If you see contradictions in the scripture it is because your beliefs are wrong. False teaching (in any stripe) will always show themselves when set against the scriptures. You have the scriptures bearing witness your beliefs are not true because you can not keep the whole of scripture in harmony with your beliefs. A contradiction is a lie on one side or another and scriptures do not lie.

I see no contradiction with these two passage because they have nothing to do with each other, therefor there is no contradiction.

faith nullifies nothing. Works will not get you any closer to heaven than the very heart of hell. If you could do anything to add to the REDEEMING work of the Cross then you are greater than Christ Himself. Our works are the EVEDENCE of our salvation NOT part of the means.

We don't keep the law to be or maintain salvation - the scriptures speak consistantly that against that. "for by the LAW shall NO flesh be Justified" But we find that by Christ we are justified by faith. Christ NEVER said to keep the Law of the OT to be saved. He said we must believe in Him and the WORKS that He did. This 'works' He did we for our benifit for our salvation. He will change our very nature that we will no longer desire to live like the world but unto Him that died for me 2 Cor 5:15, Col 2:20. But still not according to the physical law but the spiritual things thereof that bear witness we are His children.

 

Their works are the evedence OF their salvation NOT the CAUSE.
As Children of God we will live for Christ. For those who only profess Him as Lord, they still live for themselves...being disobedient, worldy, lustful...and they do all of these all the time therefore they are abominable or better an abomination. Every true that bears forth good fruit (works) is known for what it produces - Godliness and goodness
Every tree that brings forth bad or corrupt fruit (works) in known for what it produces - ungodliness and evil.

Read you bible Claudia in context without pretext and you will loose those inept 'proof texts'.

They ONLY "work" that is in conjust with salvation is the very work that is the CAUSE of salvation. The FINISHED 'work' of Jesus Christ. If the work is finished there is nothing to add to to it, period!!


Your afore mentioned proof text concerning 'works' being apart of salvation.
Faith without works is dead... You really ought to read that chapter better the whole book.

If you have faith and no works - then you have a dead faith. - a faith with no life is one illistrated as one without Christ. It is for THIS reason the writter states - I will show you MY FAITH by my works. Again, works are the evedence OF salvation not the causation or addition to it.

 

Allan, I said CONDITIONS, not contradictions

 

LOL, My bad... I just got off of another thread on anther board speaking of that.
I confess it, I'm the moron here.

Sorry Claudia for that one, you got the over spill. Forgive me concerning the contradictions part??

The other half of the post I maintain though it truth it was part of the former but I recant my statement of you holding the bible has contradictions.

Those two verse you gave however still have nothing to do with each other.
And it is speaking of the Kingdom and living during the physical 1000 year reign verses the the over concerning spiritual SALVATION.

 

thats ok Alan, I will come back to re-read the other half then...

 

I don't participate in debate. I point out how utterly bogus the concept of debate is, when a Christian is aware that all scripture is God-breathed and spiritually discerned. If we all came to that knowledge, debate would cease, denominations would vanish, the church would be one. No hierarchy, no pope, no rules, no robes, no intellectual pursuits ~~ just rejoicing in his everlasting love while sharing it with others. The windmill is the symbol of Christianity's failure to recognize this simple truth. It spins and spins and spins denominational disputes. Don Quixote looks at it, trys to inform it, sees the futility of it all, but when the Holy Spirit leads, seeks once again to point out the futility of debate.

:jesus: