Ephesian 5:18-19 Not saved if you dont sing?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by webdog, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. webdog

    webdog
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    Our pastor yesterday stated if you don't sing in church, you need to question if you are even saved and used Ephesians 5:19 as the reference.

    Has anyone heard this reasoning before? The text in question is speaking of being filled with the Spirit, not indwelt, no? Before I question him I wanted to make sure I am understanding the context correctly, and even if he is correct, the converse isn't also necessarily true, i.e., singing = saved, not singing = lost.

    Thoughts?

    [title changed by request]
     
    #1 webdog, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2013
  2. RLBosley

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    Whew... your title had me concerned for a second :D

    I've heard similar things before and I think the problem is more that the pastor is trying to make some grand impressive statement that is in reality really stupid.

    The verse pretty plainly says that it's "to yourselves" and "in your heart." This verse has nothing to do with in a church service but speaks about how the overflowing joy we should have from being satisfied in the Lord and filled with the Spirit (not in some charismatic sense) causes us to have that internal monologue (perhaps dialogue with God?) where we are praising God and worshiping Him.

    At least that's my understanding.
     
  3. InTheLight

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    I see the context as saying a Spirit-filled person will gladly sing. I wouldn't go so far as to say a person that doesn't sing in church is not saved. If someone regularly attends yet NEVER sings in church I would wonder about the reasons they don't participate.

    Agree with you that the context is Spirit-filled and not indwelt by the Spirit.
     
  4. webdog

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    Stupid auto correct, I asked an administrator to change sin to sing :)
     
  5. webdog

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    In our situation, we have a new worship leader who has brought all new music. I think this might play a role. My wife doesn't like to sing in general. I took offense that she should question her salvation if she doesn't sing, I don't always sing either, but its more due to not knowing the songs as we are always introducing new songs.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Changed the title.

    One is not saved if God didn't save them. I don't "anything" (including 'sing') so pretty cut-and-dried subject for me.
     
  7. webdog

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    Thanks for changing it!
     
  8. Bronconagurski

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    I have been in a small church that did not preach that, but the Pastor was zealous and tried to get everyone involved in the singing in the worship service, so he would say something like, "You know the only kind of bird that doesn't sing is the buzzard." :) My sons thought that was corny (they had other words that I am not hip enough to remember), but that was the gist of it. He would never say someone was not saved, however, if they did not sing. That would be like saying everyone should have the same talents. I don't sing specials or in the choir, but I do sing in the shower, much to my family's chagrin. :)
     
  9. Jerome

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    There is nothing new under the sun:


    Kenneth W. Osbeck, Amazing Grace: 366 Inspiring Hymn Stories for Daily Devotions, March 27, "We're Marching to Zion"

    Come, we that love the Lord,
    And let our joys be known;
    Join in a song with sweet accord,
    Join in a song with sweet accord
    And thus surround the throne,
    And thus surround the throne.

    We’re marching to Zion,
    Beautiful, beautiful Zion;
    We’re marching upward to Zion,
    The beautiful city of God.

    Let those refuse to sing,
    Who never knew our God;
    But favorites of the heavenly King,
    But favorites of the heavenly King
    May speak their joys abroad,
    May speak their joys abroad.
     
  10. Salty

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    Your pastor is absolutely right!!! But the reference he should have used is Hezekiah 6:24 :smilewinkgrin:

    Found this on the net - interesting read

    Some time ago, I read an article that (in the 1700's ?) a pastor recommended that the church sing a song after communion as that occurred in Mark 14:26. (as that church thought it was un-scriptural to sing in church)

    I was looking for it, but could not find it. Any help out there?
     
    #10 Salty, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2013
  11. webdog

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    is that taught after 2 Calamities? :)
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    I would have to agree here with J Vernon Mcmegee, in that if my salvation depended upon my singing voice, I would be on the outside looking in!


    the contex here would be that when we come together and assembly to worship the Lord as a bdy, the Spirit will give some this some that NOT referring to if we are saved or not, as being saved already is assumed!
     
  13. nodak

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    The only times I've heard preachers teach that if you don't sing you aren't saved is when they have unilaterally changed the music. When it doesn't fly and folks stop singing, the castigating begins.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    The best thing you could before you come to any conclusions about what he said is to go to him and ask for clarification.
     
  15. Bob Alkire

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    Very good advise!!!
     
  16. webdog

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    Actually what was said in the op is just what he said....if you dont sing you have to question if you are saved. My question is the context of the "proof text" and if being filled is the same as indwelling.
     
  17. Revmitchell

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    That may be, but you still should give him an opportunity to make a clarification. Anything can be said the wrong way. Failure to do so is just mean and uncharitable to your pastor.
     
    #17 Revmitchell, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2013
  18. Winman

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    I have been a musician all my life, and I am a pretty good singer. I've been in lots of bands with other musicians, etc...

    Singing is very personal for some folks. Many believe they do not have a good voice and so will barely sing. Of course, those with a good voice tend to sing loud, sometimes WAY TOO LOUD.

    I believe every person can sing, that they can learn to use what voice they have. No one would say Tom Waits has a good voice, but I think he is a fantastic singer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo4Y0TxW41g

    Don't take Tom too seriously folks.

    If you can show folks how even people like Tom Waits can sing, most will begin to let go and sing. With practice comes confidence.
     
  19. DHK

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    Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
    20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
    21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

    I would never relate it to salvation but I have heard others relate the following verses to the one main command of "being filled with the Holy Spirit." That is a command after salvation. We all should endeavor to be "continually filled with the Holy Spirit," on a day to day basis.

    As a consequence of being filled:
    We would sing and make melody in our hearts to the Lord.
    We would be a thankful people.
    And we would be a submissive people, submitting ourselves one to another--humility is the attribute I believe.

    I have seen it preached in that format.
    Aren't "speaking" "giving" "submitting" all participles, which would all be modifying the verb or the command to "Be filled"?
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    Think that when one is filled with the Spirit, he gets the "joy" of the Lord, and that comes out as at times praise. other times songs, or prayers!
     

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