Ergun Caner leaves Liberty for Arlington Baptist College

What then, do we do with someone like Caner who gets up at large convention-wide gatherings and "exaggerates" (to say it nicely) and then speaks in Arabic to support his claims. Then, when people I know who speak Arabic listen to him and say he isn't speaking Arabic but just babbling. What do we do then?

During the controversy I wasn't so much concerned with the disappearing, re-appearing degrees because sometimes publishers just plain get them wrong. I mean most people don't know the difference between a PhD and a ThD. What got me was the apparent continued, acknowledgeable dishonesty.

I'm all for allowing Dr. Caner to rehab his image and continue in ministry but he needs accountability in his life.

Of my connections at Liberty I know this hasn't happened. What is sadder to me is that the seminary was growing under his leadership and is now going through a period of stunted growth. Faculty are leaving and programs are not expanding. The leadership simply isn't there and the courses are becoming more shallow because of a lack of thorough leadership.

So what do we do? Again I'm all for allowing people to find a place in ministry, but how soon and how much of a place?

 

Rhet,
As usual, your wisdom shines through.

I was not going to say much else, if anything. This is complicated by my personal knowledge of the Caners and of the evidence. I have a unique perspective. Trust me: I've bitten my tongue off. I've spoken in vague generalities for the most part. I think that is the route I will continue to take.

I think I've said more than I ever intended, but nowhere near what I could say....and more than likely won't in terms of specifics. However, Rippon addressed a question or two that I almost felt/feel compelled to have to answer. I'm tempted to respond (again, generically) but I have an equally compelling reason not to. That's the part I struggle with.

It's not that I have any affection for the Caners or any allegiance to them as such. However, you make a good point that we should not glory in the fall of a brother. Yet others are equally right: when someone does damage to the body and appears (key word) to show no repentance, what should the response be? Again, this is not just information I know from reading blogs. These are two real people we're talking about, not just two guys who appear in bylines or on platforms.

Hope you see what I'm saying. Good to hear your voice on here, Rhet!

 

If Ergun was in a church body that actually disciplined its members Mr.Caner would be out of any kind of ministry.

I would like to know how he can be characterized as wounded. He has not even admitted to any wrong-doing. In other words he has not sinned --just those PJ-clad boggers in their mothers' basments as he approximately put it.

How about the hurtful and sinful things said about James White,Wade B, Debby K,Tom Rich and others who ran to "defend" Ergun by saying such nasty things? Peter L., Craig D.,Dr.Mary and others certainly were not encouraged to moderate their conduct by Ergun Caner -- he may even have encouraged them in their ways. He's friends with Craig D after all.

Poor,poor Ergun? Pity the man? His arrogance knows no bounds. He's on the prowl for more unwitting folks who he can con. He preys on the unsuspecting.

And beyond his lies and arrogance --he's no fundamentalist. Take a gander at his tweets over the past months for a sampling.

 

Liberty Is Special

You know, I guess the thing that pains me most about this matter is that Liberty is really a special place. I'm not in the SBC or even in the other circles that have political dogs in this fight. I just finished reading Macel Falwell's biography of her late husband and it reminded me of just how special a place that Liberty is. Regardless of what one ever thought of Jerry Falwell or of Caner for that matter, Liberty alumni and supporters just plain deserve better than this.

 

Baptists, for that matter, Christians, deserve better than this.

This thing reminds me of the Mike Warnke situation a number of years ago. He invented a whole background and testimony and became an "expert" on the occult for Christians and even mainstream media. When I encountered people who really were involved in the occult (self-style satanism) in the late 1980s, I tried to get some information and guidance from Warnke ministries and discovered they knew less about it than I did.

Warnke's teaching on the occult only undermined those who really were confronting evil with the gospel, just like Caner's teaching undermines those who are trying to take the gospel to Muslims.

 

I'm sure Liberty is glad he is gone. He is going to fit in just fine with the fundamentalists behind Arlington, they just eat up the authoritarian, take no prisoners approach to ministry that he is so very, very fond of. It doesn't need to be true as long as it sounds good!

Hope it doesn't go well for him or the school for hiring someone so clearly caught up with themselves they can't even admit they lied when presented with clear evidence. These kind of people don't need to be successful.

 

While I am not shocked he's gone from Liberty, I am highly shocked at where he landed.

I noticed Liberty isn't using his "When Worldviews Collide" book for their Worldviews class anymore either.

 

What text have they replace it with? I enjoyed that class so much. :tear:

 

I Just finished the course on LUO last term and enjoyed it. I noticed the change because I the iTunesU lectures changed. I actually liked the book, my church actually did the book for one of our wed night classes as well. That being said I don't know if I cared for Caner's video lectures. Anyway to the question, the course guide on their site hasn't changed but I noticed if you go to purchase the books for the course they are different. They are still using the Hindson/Caner "Popular Encyclopedia of Apologetics" but instead of the Wordviews book they have a custom book called "Consider" by Lew Weider.

 

I loved learning how Caner described islam as ancient mormonisn.....He described it to a "t" and also made me think about so many other religions that I hadn't delved into before to see what was wrong with them....polytheistic, cultish, the many things I learned.

 

Caner's Recent Video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySAFc0vK5Xs&feature=related

(Posted in good humor... maybe...)

 

I transferred to Liberty from another institution to finish online. Therefore, as a graduate of Liberty, I am glad to see Dr. Caner leave. I only had to endure one class that had him lecturing, and the word endure describes the process. I do not think the University had planned on him leaving, but I do think his contract was short for a reason. He did major damage to the school and has done so unapologetically. However, God can and does forgive the repentant, but I have not seen that on a public level, and likely never will. Given his actions or persona, a private repentance does not seem likely either. He simply does not believe he was wrong. He thinks all he did was have some mishaps in dates. There are several occasions where he is pretending to speak in his "home" language, and it is only discovered he is speaking gibberish. Mistakes happen, but that kind of garbage is just that. As a Liberty Alumni, I am glad to see him leave.

 

The campus of Arlington Baptist College was highlighted in the latest issue of Gambling Online Magazine:

 

He probably borrowed material from Robert A. Morey without acknowledgement.

 

Color me "not surprised". This was a foregone conclusion when he lost his position as Dean/President of the Seminary. The University knows what he did but, instead of firing him, they gave him a face saving way out.

 

Good riddance.

Too bad he's still in minstry.

 

From A Recent Nonsensical Ergun Caner Tweet

"We ain't purty,dress correctly or even care what Pink says. We are freechurchers and Ansbaptists. We don't preach in wigs.We have holsters."

I'd say he's out of his wig.

 

Controversy Follows Baptist Theologian to North Texas

If there is such a thing as a controversial, lightning rod Baptist minister, then one is headed to North Texas.

Ergun Caner is the former head of Jerry Falwell's Liberty Baptist Seminary in Lynchburg, Virginia, and his claims of having terrorist ties have clouded his credibility — and perhaps his future.

Claims of being so hated that he once had to dodge oranges being hurled from the audience is not what you might expect to hear from the Dean of Theology at Liberty Baptist Seminary.

But it's part of the Ergun Caner mystique and legend... of having been raised a radical Muslim in Turkey and an enemy of America.

"I hated you," Caner can be heard saying in a 2006 address to a student audience now broadcast on YouTube. "That may be harsh, but as Dr. Hays told you, my training center was in Beirut."

Caner is also on record saying he was trained to be a terrorist at the time his family moved from Turkey to America in 1978.

Once in the United States, Caner said he converted to Christianity, then rose to national prominence after the September 11 terrorist attacks in 2001.

That's when religion blogger Tom Rich of Jacksonville, Florida first heard Caner's message.

"He said that he was trained to do that was done on 11 September, which means in no uncertain terms ,'I was trained to be a terrorist, I was raised to be a terrorist,'" Rich said.

But last summer, Caner's story started to unravel when skeptics found evidence that despite his claims, the self-proclaimed young Jihadist actually moved to America from Sweden in 1969 — not from Turkey in 1978. Caner grew up looking and acting like most every other kid his age.

The discrepancies proved so damaging that Caner was demoted at Liberty Baptist and is now headed to North Texas to become vice president at Arlington Baptist College, home to 200 students and to perhaps a not-so-welcoming staff.

One faculty member told News 8: "I find it reprehensible that the leadership of the Arlington Baptist College would hire a man who is very clearly profiteering from the tragedy of September 11."

Back in Florida, Tom Rich says giving Caner credibility takes it away from the entire church.

"It really calls into question of the integrity of the organization that he represents," Rich said. "It makes it harder to spread the Gospel to people when they know that Southern Baptists are actually not holding this guy accountable."

Caner did not respond to our requests for an interview, but he is on the record saying he's only guilty of uttering "discrepancies" and making "pulpit mistakes."

Arlington Baptist President Dr. Dan Moody declined an on-camera interview, but told us by e-mail:

"Dr. Caner has our full confidence, and we are excited about the future of our school. We consider all the controversy to be in the past, and we are moving forward with full confidence."

And while Liberty Baptist Seminary officials found Caner made "factual statements that are self-contradictory," the chairman of the panel that investigated him says, "We never once found that he lied."

What seems to be at issue now is whether his detractors can now find it in themselves to forgive.