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ESV And NASU In Ezekiel

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Nov 28, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I don't know if the book of Ezekiel is representative of all of the Bible . However , I have found that though the NASU is not known for smooth reading , it is better than the ESV . I found 72 phrases using either bad grammar or awkward speech . The phrases are understandable , but a more contemporary wording would be preferable . Unwieldy wording does not have to be used in a modern translation using the word " Standard " in its title . I found that the NASU uses 27 of the same kind with 4 more of its own .

    I will not go through the whole listing but my sample will be large enough for you to get an idea . I will list the wordings that are basically the same in both ( but featuring the ESV rendering ). Then I will show 4 examples where the NASU has some which are unique to itself .

    3:20 __ his blood I will require at your hand

    4:16 __ They shall eat bread by weight and with anxiety , and they shall drink water by measure and in dismay .

    6:9 __ their eyes that go whoring after their idols

    7:18 __ baldness on their heads

    8:18 __ my eye will have no pity

    10:13 __ they were called in my hearing

    13:19 __ by your lying to my people

    20:31 __ I will not be inquired of by you

    21:5 __ all flesh shall know

    21:24 __ you shall be taken in hand

    22:15 __ I will consume your uncleanness out of you

    23:7 __ She bestoweed her whoring upon them

    23:13 __ they both took the same way

    25:15 __ with malice of soul to destroy in never-ending enmity

    29:18 __ made his army labor hard

    32:31 __ he will be comforted for all his multitude

    33:6 __ his blood shall be upon his own head

    33:18 __ When the righteous turns from his righteousness

    33:19 __ when the wicked turns from his wickedness

    36:10 __ I will multiply on you

    36:11 __ I will multiply on you man and beast

    36:37 __ This also I will let the house of Israel ask me to do for them

    43:2 __ the sound of many waters

    44:5 __ mark well

    44:25 __ by going near to a dead person

    47:12 __ their fruit will be for food

    47:22 __ they shall be to you


    Okay , now I'll list 4 phrases unique to the NASU .

    25:7 __ I will give you for spoil to the nations

    31:5 __ because of many waters

    34:31 __ you are men , and I am your God

    45:9 __ Stop your expropriations from my people
     
    #1 Rippon, Nov 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2006
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    None of these are quite as good as something Bruce Metzger notes in his book, The Bible in Translation, regarding the British Revised Version:

    Rob
     
    #2 Deacon, Nov 29, 2006
  3. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    As is always the case, "better than" is a qualitative judgment held by a particular writer. It is not necessarily fact, but merely one person's opinion.
     
    #3 Keith M, Nov 29, 2006
  4. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Congratulations on reaching 1000 posts Rippon!

    And future congrats to you, Keith, you're not far behind.

    Rob
     
    #4 Deacon, Nov 29, 2006
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Oh don't twist my arm ! I will list some more of those ole' time expressions found in the book of Ezekiel in the ESV .

    1:4 __ in the midst of the fire , as it were gleaming metal

    1:28 __ Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain

    3:7 __ the house of Israel have a hard forehead

    3:14 __ I went in bitterness in the heat of my spirit , the hand of the Lord being strong upon me

    3:19 __ you will have delivered your soul

    7:13 __ For the vision concerns all their multitude ; it shall not turn back

    7:15 __ The sword is without

    11:13 __ Will you make a full end of the remnant of Israel

    13:15 __ The wall is no more

    13:17 __ by your lying to my people

    14:15 __ and it be made desolate

    16:16 __ The like has never been , nor ever shall be

    16:20 __ and these you sacrificed to them to be devoured

    16:32 __ Adulterous wife , who receives strangers instead of her husband !

    16:60 __ and I will establish for you an everlasting covenant

    17:18 __ he gave his hand [ certainly not in marriage ! -- Rip ]

    17:21 __ And all the pick of his troops

    18:10 __ a shedder of blood

    18:20 __ The soul who sins shall die .

    23:34 __ gnaw its shards

    27:11 __ they made perfect your beauty

    27:35 __ and the hair of the king bristles with horror

    27:36 __ and shall be no more forever

    28:8 __ and you shall die the death of the slain

    29:19 __ despoil it

    31:17 __ yes, those who were its arm

    32:25 __ They have made her a bed among the slain with all her multitude , her graves all around it , all of them uncircumcised , slain by the sword , for terror of them was spread in the land of the living , and they bear their shame with those who go down to the pit ; they are placed among the slain . [ Can anyone say run-on ? -- Rip ]
     
    #5 Rippon, Nov 29, 2006
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    33:30 __ say to one another , each to his brother

    34:16 __ and I will bring back the strayed

    34:22 __ And I will judge between sheep and sheep

    34:25 __ I will make with them a covenant

    34:28 __ They shall no more be a prey to the nations

    34:29 __ they shall no more be consumed with hunger in the land

    35:12 __ they are given us to devour

    35:13 __ And you magnified yourselves against me with your mouth

    36:25 __ and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses

    38:8 __ after many days you will be mustered [ Not ketchup ? -- Rip ]

    38:10 __ I will fall upon the quiet people

    39:20 __ And you shall be filled at my table with horses and charioteers , with mighty men and all kinds of warriors

    44:7 __ when you offer to me my food

    44:20 __ they shall surely trim the hair of their heads

    45:8 __ shall no more oppress my people
     
    #6 Rippon, Nov 29, 2006
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I looked at Ezk. 14:15 because it looked the strangest to me.

    __ and it be made desolate

    At least here, it was immediately clear what the problem was.

    When I say, “He made something”, it conveys that someone did something in the past.

    But verbs in biblical Hebrew aren’t like those in English, they don’t tell us when an action takes place.
    Hebrew verbs only convey whether an action is completed or not (complete or incomplete)…
    And to add more than that, in a sense, ADDS to the word of God.

    The strength of the ESV is the way it usually handles these word constructions.
    It is absolutely un-natural in English because our language doesn’t work in the same ways biblical Hebrew does.

    I was interested reading about John of Japan’s dilemma translating the NT into Japanese when he described the different levels of politeness that needed to be conveyed.
    He has a similar problem. Does he make the translation sound awkward and un-Japanese or does he ADD these levels of politeness into the text as he perceives them.
    Difficult decision in some cases, I’m sure.

    The ESV hebrizes the English, stretching the word tenses in English into a Hebrew pattern.

    One of my hobbies is studying the opening chapters Of Genesis.
    I’ve found that the ESV (and the HCSB) have done an excellent job of translating these chapters.
    Some of what we think we understand about these chapters is added by the translator because of the choices made in translating the verb tenses.

    Rob
     
    #7 Deacon, Nov 30, 2006
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