ESV Compared With The HCSB

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Aug 24, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I will feature some short examples from both versions . It is my conviction that a good Bible version should be written in clear , modern English . The ESV is a serviceable version and better than the KJV , NKJ , and NASU -- but is still a retograde version . It uses antiquated wording a good deal of the time which is totally unnecessary . For instance , the inverted negative is really a device that has not been in common speech for centuries . If the ESV is supposed to be a "current" version then why the old-fashioned phraselogy ? Can't we return to Tyndale's and Luther's desire that the ordinary person should understand the text without any affectations ? Put the text in the language of the people now . It is not any more holy or sacred to use centuries old speech in the present .

    The HCSB is my second favorite Bible translation . It is miles ahead of the ESV for the most part . Maybe the ESV will be better after a major overhaul , but as for now it is burdened with ancient baggage .

    The ESV rendering will be above and the HCS below .

    2:7 I have begotten you

    I have become Your Father

    5:9 For there is no truth in their mouth; their inmost self is destruction .

    For there is nothing reliable in what they say , destruction is within them .

    7:3 lest like a lion they tear my soul apart

    or they will tear me like a lion , ripping me apart

    7:5 lay my glory in the dust

    leave my honor in the dust

    8:2 you have established strength because of your foes

    You have established a stronghold ... to silence the enemy

    9:11 Tell among the peoples his deeds !

    proclaim His deeds among the peoples

    10:14 for you note mischief and vexation

    But You Yourself have seen trouble and grief

    11:4 his eyelids test , the children of man

    His eyes watch ; He examines everyone

    12:1 the children of man

    the human race

    13:2 How long must I take counsel in my soul ?

    How long will I store up anxious concerns within me ?

    14:3 together they have become corrupt

    all alike have become corrupt

    14:4 Have they no knowledge , all the evildoers

    Will evildoers never understand ?

    15:4 who swears to his own hurt

    who keeps his word whatever the cost

    16:9 my flesh also dwells secure

    my body also rests securely

    18:16 many waters

    deep waters

    18:26 you make yourself seem tortuous

    You prove yourself shrewd

    19:9 the fear of the Lord is clean

    The fear of the Lord is pure
     
    #1 Rippon, Aug 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2006
  2. ACADEMIC

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    Both are good. Relax and enjoy the use both, and several others besides.
     
  3. Rippon

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    I'm Sorry . The phrases Are From Pslams .

    But you should have picked up on that anyway .

    20:9 save the king !

    give victory to the king !

    22:9 Yet you are he

    You

    22:16 For dogs encompass me

    For dogs have surrounded me

    22:22 I will tell of your name

    I will proclaim Your name

    23:1 I shall not want

    there is nothing I lack

    25:2 let me not

    Do not let me

    25:7 Remember not

    Do not remember

    25:20 Let me not

    Do not let me

    25:22 Redeem Israel , O God , out of all his troubles

    God , redeem Israel , from all its adversaries

    27:4 to inquire in his temple

    seeking [Him] in His temple

    27:9 Hide not ... turn not ... cast me not off

    Do not hide ... do not turn ... do not leave or abandon me

    27:12 Give me not up

    Do not give me over

    28:1 be not deaf

    do not be deaf

    32:9 Be not

    Do not be

    33:13 the children of man

    everyone

    35:19 Let not ... let not

    Do not let ... Do not let

    35:22 be not silent !... be not far from me !

    do not be silent -- do not be far from me .

    35:25 Let them not say in their hearts

    Do not let them say in their hearts

    35:27 my righteousness

    my vindication

    36:7 The children of mankind

    people

    36:11 Let not

    Do not let

    37:1 Fret not -- be not

    Do not be agitated -- do not

    37:7 fret not

    do not be agitated

    37:8 fret not

    do not be agitated [ You are getting agitated are you ?]

    38:1 rebuke me not

    do not ... discipline me

    38:12 those who seek my hurt

    those who want to harm me

    39:12 hold not your peace at my tears

    do not be silent at my tears

    40:14 who desire my hurt

    who wish me harm

    40:17 but the Lord takes thought for me

    the Lord thinks of me
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Pslams ? It must be my Korean accent :laugh: . I meant Psalms .
     
  5. Rippon

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    Continuing In Psalms

    The ESV rendering will be at the top and the HCSB's wording will be below .

    49:7 Truly no man can ransom another

    Yet these cannot redeem a person

    50:15 you shall glorify me

    you will honor Me

    51:5 I was brought forth in iquity , and in sin did my mother conceive me .

    I was guilty when I was born ; I was sinful when my mother conceived me .

    51:6 you teach me your wisdom in the secret heart

    You teach me wisdom deep within

    51:11 Cast me not away ... take not your Holy Spirit from me

    Do not banish me ... or take Your Holy Spirit from me

    52:1 O mighty man

    you hero !

    53:2 the children of man

    human race

    55:3 they drop trouble on me

    they bring disaster on me

    56:5 All day long they injure my cause

    They twist my words all day long

    56:8 You have kept count of my tossings

    You Yourself have recorded my wanderings

    57:3 he will put to shame him who tramples on me

    challenging the one who tramples me

    57:6 my soul was bowed down

    I was downcast

    58:7 like water that runs away

    like water that flows by

    58:11 Mankind

    people

    59:11 Kill them not , lest my people forget ; make them totter by your power .

    Do not kill them ; otherwise , my people will forget . By Your power , make them homeless wanderers .

    60:11 for vain is the salvation of man !

    for human help is worthless .

    64:9 mankind

    everyone

    65:2 to you shall all flesh come

    All humanity will come to You

    65:11 Your wagon tracks overflow with abundance

    Your ways overflow with abundance

    68:18 leading a host of captives in your train and receiving gifts among men .

    taking away captives ; You received gifts from people .

    69:6 Let not ... Let not

    Do not let ... Do not let

    69:11 I became a byword to them

    I was a joke to them

    69:15 Let not

    Don't let

    69:17 Hide not your face

    Don't hide Your face

    69:27 May they have no acquittal from you

    do not let them share in Your righteousness

    70:5 hasten to me

    hurry to me

    71:3 Be to me a rock of refuge

    Be a rock of refuge to me

    71:6 you are he

    You

    71:8 with your glory all the day

    honor to You all day long

    71:9 forsake me not

    Don't discard me

    71:12 be not far from me

    do not be far from me

    71:24 who sought to do me hurt

    who seek my harm

    73:4 their bodies are fat and sleek

    their bodies are well-fed

    73:22 I was brutish and ignorant

    I was a fool and didn't understand

    74:12 working salvation

    performing saving acts

    74:21 Let not

    Do not let

    75:5 speak with haughty neck

    speak arrogantly

    76:10 Surely the wrath of man

    Even human wrath

    78:13 made the waters stand like a heap

    the water stood firm like a wall
     
  6. sbckid

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    I love the HCSB it is the version i use most often. I would disagree with you about the word selections of the ESV but the HCSB is very well translated
     
  7. Rippon

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    You would disagree with me about the word selections in the ESV , but you love the HCS translation . I do not understand . Aren't the word choices in the HCS superior to that of the ESV ?

    Incidentally , the more dynamic REB and NJB also use awkward English though they are considerably more free than the ESV . The NJB has its merits , but when reading it aloud it's choppy . The REB is growing on me despite its less than evangelical credentials . Also the wording is kind of Victorian though it was released in 1989 . Sometimes the wording sounds pretentious with many syllables where an easier word would have sufficed . It's not at all on a 6th grade level as I saw on some website .

    I think the range of good , understandable English translations are between the NIV/TNIV ; HCSB ; NLT and possibly the ISV -- though I haven't checked the last one out yet . The NET Bible is also in that category .
     
    #7 Rippon, Aug 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2006
  8. Rippon

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    Going On In Psalms

    The ESV at the top and the HCS below .

    78:31 laid low the young men of Israel

    He struck down Israel's choice young men .

    78:33 vanish like a breath

    end in futility

    81:15 would cringe toward him

    would pretend submission to Him

    83:2 have raised their heads

    have acted arrogantly

    83:13 make them like whirling dust

    make them like tumbleweed

    89:15 festal

    joyful

    89:47 For what vanity you have created all the children of men !

    Have you created everyone for nothing ?

    91:4 pinions

    feathers

    91:8 the recompense

    the punishment

    94:17 my soul would soon have lived in the land of silence

    I would soon rest in the silence of death

    101:3 I hate the work of those who fall away

    I hate the doing of transgression

    103:9 He will not always chide

    He will not always accuse us

    106:30 the plague was stayed

    the plague was stopped

    106:32 it went ill with Moses on their account

    Moses suffered because of them

    107:8 the children of men !

    human race

    107:15 the children of men !

    human race

    107:21 the children of men !

    human race

    107:31 the children of men !

    human race

    ( I know it sounds like an argument :smilewinkgrin: )

    108:12 for vain is the salvation of man !

    human help is worthless

    109:1 Be not silent

    do not be silent

    109:14 let not

    do not let

    109:25 wag their heads

    shake their heads

    115:16 the children of man ( no excalmation mark this time )

    human race

    116:11 All mankind

    Everyone
     
  9. Plain Old Bill

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    Rippon are you a missionary who has been in Korea so long you now have a Korean accent or are you Korean by birth?
     
  10. Rippon

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    My Korean accent comment was a joke . I am a white boy with the requisite blond hair and blue eyes . I am an edjumakator in S.K -- an English infotainer .
     
  11. DeclareHim

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    I prefer a more literal translation. One which sticks closely to the original Greek and the ESV is my favorite version. It is certainly readable and it is easily understandable.
     
  12. Rippon

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    Continuing In Psalms

    The ESV rendering is at the top and the HCS wording is below .

    119:19 hide not

    do not hide

    119:31 let me not

    do not

    119:83 I have become like a wineskin in the smoke

    I have become like a wineskin [ dried ] by smoke

    119:116 let me not

    do not let me

    119:120 My flesh trembles for fear of you

    I tremble in awe of you

    119:122 let not

    do not let

    119:134 man's oppression

    human oppression

    119:139 My zeal consumes me

    My anger overwhelmes me

    119:143 Trouble and anguish have found me out

    Trouble and distress have overtaken me

    124:5 then over us would have gone the raging waters

    the raging waters would have swept ver us

    124:6 who has not given us as prey to their teeth !

    who has not let us be ripped apart by their teeth

    125:5 the Lord will lead away with evildoers !

    the Lord will banish themwith the evildoers

    127:2 eating the bread of anxious toil

    eating food earned by hard work

    129:3 they made long their furrows

    they made their furrows long

    129:5 be put to shame and turned backward

    be driven back in disgrace

    132:11 one of the sons of your body

    one of your descendants

    136:5 to him who by understanding made the heavens

    He made the heavens skillfully

    136:23 in our low estate

    in our humilation

    136:25 to all flesh

    to every creature

    137:7 Lay it bare , lay it bare

    Destroy it ! Destroy it !

    140:6 give ear

    Listen

    140:8 Grant not

    Do not grant

    140:10 no more to rise !

    never to rise again

    140:11 Let not

    Do not let

    141:4 let me not

    Do not let my

    143:2 Enter not into judgment with your servant

    Do not bring your servant into judgment

    143:4 my heart within me is appalled

    my heart is overcome with dismay

    143:7 hide not

    Don't hide

    144:3 that you regard him

    that you think of him ?

    145:12 the children of man

    [ all ] people

    145:21 all flesh

    every living thing

    146:2 while I have my being

    as long as I live

    146:6 who keeps faith forever

    He remains faithful forever

    147:9 He gives to the beasts their food

    He provides the animals with their food
     
    #12 Rippon, Aug 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2006
  13. sbckid

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    I mean I would classify it as a modern version. Although I don't like all their word choices I would still say it's an excellent readable version.
     
  14. Paul33

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    It doesn't measure up to its own claims of what it is supposed to be.

    It may be readable, but it is not as easily understood as the NIV.
     
  15. El_Guero

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    sounds like HCSB over ESV?
     
  16. Pete Richert

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    Until recently I read almost exclusivly from the ESV. This year I have read some from the *cough* *cough* TNIV *cough* and am now reading from the HCSB. I have found the HCSB more fluid and easily understandable then the ESV. Is this a good thing? Maybe not. Maybe it is the result of the HCSB translators taking more liberties in translation and doing more intrepretive work. But I am way to lazy to track that down now, and don't know enough Greek or Hebrew to determine it anyway. Either way, the Bible has encouraged me in my trust in Jesus, exposed my sins, lead me to repetence, and giving me hope in the future. I don't have a lot of time to worry about critiquing the particular wording of the verses when the message of the Bible is doing some serious critiquing of me :thumbsup:
     
  17. Plain Old Bill

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    I spent 3 1/2 years in Taegue.
     
  18. El_Guero

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    POB

    I know you are getting a lil bit senile . . . but, what does taegu have to do with ESV?

    ;)
     
  19. Plain Old Bill

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    I should have made that a PM to Rippon.
    BTW E-Sword has a copy of the ESV. I like the ESV.:smilewinkgrin:
     
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