ESV/NLTse In Psalms

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Jun 17, 2007.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    My focus is on the awkward , and ungrammatical phraselogy of the ESV . Most of the time , even though the wording is unnecessarily clumsy , it is still understandable . Therefore , you might say , what's the problem then ? This is the problem . The revisers of the RSV did not do much work in revising large swaths of that version . They left a lot intact . It is billed as a new version , but it isn't . The wording is very plain in a great number of places , then employs awful biblish in others . It is down-right inelegant on too many occasions .

    William Tyndale wanted the Bible put into the vernacular . The ESV to a large extent does not do that , neither does the NKJ . There is no excuse for sinful syntax in a Bible translation . I don't care about the literalness factor here . If the ESV was striving for that , the revisors still could have used better wording , used clearer expressions , and avoided archaic phrases in that pursuit .

    The NLTse , though it has its shortcomings, at least has good grammar and escapes translationese .

    The ESV is on top , and the NLTse is below .

    40:13 : make haste to help me !
    Come quickly , Lord , and help me .
    40:14 : who desire my hurt !
    who take delight in my trouble
    40:17 : the Lord takes thought for me
    let the Lord keep me in his thoughts
    47:1 : Clap your hands , all peoples !
    Come , everyone ! Clap your hands !
    47:9 : The princes of the peoples
    The rulers of the world
    49:16 : Be not afraid
    don't be dismayed
     
  2. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    By the way, What is sinful syntax? I am so curious to find out? Do pastors need to be careful of such in their preaching? Oh, my!
     
  3. Rippon

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    50:3 -- 59:11

    50:3 : around him a mighty tempest
    a great storm rages around him
    51:5 : in sin did my mother conceive me
    I was born a sinner -- yes , from the moment my mother conceived me
    51:11 : take not
    don't take
    53:1 : there is none who does good ( and verse 3 )
    not one of them does good
    53:4 : Have those who work evil no knowledge
    Will those who do evil never learn ?
    55:3 : they drop trouble on me ( On 2nd thought it sounds sorta' slangy )
    They bring trouble on me
    55:15 : Let death steal over them
    Let death stalk my enemies
    56:5 : they injure my cause ( The ESV's footnote here has better and more contemporary English )
    They are always twisting what I say
    56:8 : You have kept count of my tossings
    You keep track of all my sorrows .
    57:8 : Awake , my glory !
    Wake up , my heart !
    59:4 : they run and make ready
    they prepare to attack me
    59:11 : kill them not
    Don't kill them
     
  4. Rippon

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    60:2 -- 69:28

    60:2 : You have made the land to quake
    You have shaken the land
    60:3 : have made your people see hard things
    You have been very hard on us
    60:12 : we shall do valiantly
    we will do mighty things
    63:5 : My soul will be satisfied as with fat
    You satisfy me more than the richest feast
    65:6 : girded with might
    armed yourself with mighty strength
    66:6 : There did we rejoice in him
    There we rejoiced in him
    66:13 : I will perform my vows to you
    to fulfill the vows I made to you
    68:6 : God settles the solitary in a home
    God places the lonely in families
    68:16 : O many-peaked mountain
    O rugged mountains
    69:17 : hide not
    Don't hide
    69:23 : make their loins tremble
    make their bodies shake
    69:25 : May their camp be a desolation
    Let their homes become desolate
    69:28 : let them not
    don't let them
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon
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    71:6 -- 89:38

    71:6 You are he who took me from my mother's womb
    from my mother's womb you have cared for me
    71:7 : I have been as a portent to many ( unfortunately the TNIV uses the same terminology here as well )
    My life is an example to many
    71:10 : my enemies speak concerning me
    My enemies are whispering against me
    71:10 : consult together
    plotting together
    71:24 : who sought to do me hurt
    who tried to hurt me
    72:3 : Let the mountains bear prosperity
    May the mountains yield prosperity for all
    73:9 : their tongue struts through the earth
    their words strut throughout the earth
    73:11 :Is there knowledge in the Most High ?
    Does the Most High even know what's happening ?
    73:17 : I discerned their end
    I finally understood the destiny of the wicked
    73:21 : I was pricked in heart
    my heart was bitter
    73:26 : my portion forever
    mine forever
    74:1 : Why does your anger smoke
    Why is your anger so intense
    74:4 : they set up their own signs for signs
    they set up their battle standards
    74:12 : working salvation
    bringing salvation
    78:34 : When he killed them , they sought him
    When God began killing them , they finally sought him
    78:39 : they were but flesh
    they were merely mortal
    79:4 : We have become a taunt
    We are mocked
    85:13 : make his footsteps a way
    preparing the way for his steps
    87:7 : All my springs are in you
    The source of my life springs from Jerusalem
    88:18 : my companions have become darkness ( its footnote is in contemporary English )
    Darkness is my closest friend
    89:11 : you have founded them
    you created it all
    89:19 : of old
    Long ago
    89:38 : But now you have cast off and rejected
    But now you have rejected him and cast him off
     
  6. TCGreek

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    So a lot of confessing and repenting need to happend, I suspect of this "sinful syntax."

    Category, Interesting, I must say. Heard of that sin, never. What biblical category would under that fit?
     
    #6 TCGreek, Jun 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2007
  7. Rippon

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    Your dialect is clearly in a category of its own .
     
  8. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Now I am confused. What are you getting at, then?
     
    #8 TCGreek, Jun 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2007
  9. Deacon

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    You may be on to something...

    Those Californians, they injure my cause,
    they drop trouble on me.
    You of the many-peaked mountains;
    You of the land that quakes,
    who have set up many signs for signs, leading countless astray,
    Know that there is none who does good.

    Let us consult together.
    Tho the English Standard be cast off,
    my mouth is still filled with it’s praise.

    But in days to come my lips will shout for joy
    When my tongue departs from sinful syntax
    And I become girded with might reading Todays Newly Inspired Version.

    Rob :laugh:
     
    #9 Deacon, Jun 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2007
  10. Rippon

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    90:11 -- 97:11

    Here I am again with my famous snips ( shortened from "snippets" ) . I'm comparing the languishing language of the ESV (at top ) with the more understandable form of communication which the NLTse ( bottom ) uses .

    90:11 : your wrath according to the fear of you
    Your wrath is as awesome as the fear you deserve
    90:17 : establish the work of our hands
    make our efforts successful
    90:4 : He will cover you with his pinions
    He will cover you with his feathers
    91:12 : On their hands they will bear you up
    They will hold you up with their hands
    94:11 : they are but a breath
    they are worthless
    94:17 : lived in the land of silence
    settled in the silence of the grave
    94:23 : He will bring back on them their iniquity
    God will turn the sins of evil people back on them
    95:9 : put me to the proof
    tried my patience
    97:11 : Light is sown
    Light shines
     
  11. Rippon

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    101:6-- 103:16

    101:6 : shall minister to me
    to serve me
    102:4 : I forget to eat my bread
    I have lost my appetite
    102:14 : have pity on her dust
    cherish even the dust
    102:23 : He has broken my strength in midcourse
    He broke my strength in midlife
    103:5 : satisfies you with good
    fills my life with good things
    103:6 : The Lord works righteousness
    The Lord gives righteousness
    103:9 : He will not always chide , nor will he keep his anger forever
    He will not constantly accuse us , nor remain angry forever
    103:14 : he knows our frame
    he knows how weak we are
    103:16 its place knows it no more
    as though we had never been here
     
  12. Rippon

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    105:25 -- 108:13

    105:21 : to deal craftily with
    plotted against
    106:14 : wanton craving ... put God to the test
    desires ran wild ... testing God's patience
    106:23 : stood in the breach
    stepped between the Lord and the people
    106:30 : the plague was stayed
    the plague was stopped
    107:5 : their soul fainted within them
    they nearly died
    107:18 : they drew near to the gates of death
    they were knocking on death's door
    107:42 : all wickedness shuts its mouth
    the wicked are struck silent
    108:12 : for vain is the salvation of man
    for all human help is useless
    108:13 : we shall do valiantly
    we will do mighty things
     
  13. Rippon

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    109:22 -- 116:14

    109:22 : my heart is stricken within me
    my heart is full of pain
    110:7 : he will lift up his head
    He will be victorious
    115:14 : May the Lord give you increase
    May the Lord richly bless
    115:17 : who go down into silence
    have gone into the silence of the grave
    116:14 : I will pay my vows to the Lord
    I keep my promises to the Lord
     
  14. Rippon

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    Some Snips From Ps.119

    You know the drill --- ESV/NLTse .

    14 : In the way of your testimonies I delight
    I have rejoiced in your laws
    19: hide not
    Don't hide
    20: My soul is consumed with longing
    I am always overwhelmed
    22: Take away from me scorn and contempt
    Don't let them scorn and insult me
    28: My soul melts away for sorrow
    I weep with sorrow
    31: let me not
    don't let me
    32: I will run in the way of your commandments
    I will pursue your commands
    43: take not
    Do not snatch
    45 : I shall walk in a wide place
    I will walk in freedom
    54: in the house of my sojourning
    wherever I have lived
    70 : their heart is unfeeling like fat
    Their hearts are dull
    81: My soul longs for your salvation
    I am worn out waiting for your rescue
    96: I have seen a limit to all perfection , but your commandment is exceedingly broad .
    Even perfection has its limits , but your commands have no limit .
    139 : My zeal consumes me
    I am overwhelmed with indignation
    143 : Trouble and anguish have found me out
    pressure and stress bear down on me
    152 : you have founded them forever
    your laws will last forever
    160 : The sum of your word is truth
    The very essence of your words is truth
    162 : finds great spoil
    discovers a great treasure
    168: my ways are before you
    you know everything I do
     
  15. npetreley

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    That one was funny. It kind of reminded me of two things -

    1. What I think was called the street bible. "Don't waste nobody. Don't be messin' with nobody's old lady or old man." I never saw that translation, myself, but I recall someone reading from it on TV many years ago.

    2. When I go to a store and the ATM keypad says "swipe card", as if it wants me to steal someone's card. "Swiper, no swiping! Swiper, no swiping!" "Aww mannn...." (For Dora the Explorer fans)
     
  16. Rippon

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    But snatchest not Thy Word of Truth from out verily of mine mouth .

    Howw's that for better biblish ?
     
  17. Rippon

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    120:3 -- 139:24

    120:3 : What shall be given to you , and what shall be done to you
    What will God do to you ? How will he increase your punishment ?
    121:6 : The sun shall not strike you
    The sun will not harm you
    127:2 : eating the bread of anxious toil
    anxiously working for food to eat
    130:3 : should mark iniquities
    kept a record of our sins
    136:25 : gives food to all flesh
    gives food to every living thing
    138:6 : the haughty he knows from afar
    he keeps his distance from the proud
    139:15 : in the depths of the earth
    in the dark of the womb
    139:24 : any grievous way in me
    anything in me that offends you
     
  18. TCGreek

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    I remember exchanging emails with Dr. Bock of DTS who was one of the translators of the NLT, and he highly recommended. Not just because he served as a translator, but because of its translation philosophy. In fact, I do consult the NLT in my sermon preparation.
     
  19. Rippon

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    You have corresponded with Darrell Bock ! He's a knowlegeable fellow . He's also a fan of the TNIV . I am glad you make use of the NLTse in sermon preparation TCG .
     
  20. Gayla

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    When reading all the lists here, I have absolutely no problem understanding the ESV quotes.
    They make sense to me.
     

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