ESV - Poor quality workmanship?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Priscilla Ann, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. Priscilla Ann

    Priscilla Ann
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    I have heard wonderful comments about the ESV translation itself; however, with almost very Crossway ESV bible, customer comments on Amazon.com express complaints about the less than satisfactory quality of the bibles, such as:
    • poor binding
    • flimsy leather covers
    • thin, poor quality paper
    • light print, especially in red-letter editions
    Has Crossway addressed any of these problems in their more recent editions of the ESV? Is there a high-quality ESV available?
     
  2. Rippon

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    You are speaking of the dressing.I am surprised that you haven't come upon and criticisms of the translation itself.It's good to have a sturdy Bible and all those externals you mentioned.However,the translation needs a lot more work.It's kissing cousin has done a better job.

    When you buy a car you don't focus on the color alone do you?
     
  3. Priscilla Ann

    Priscilla Ann
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    Obviously, the externals are not of primary importance; however, bibles are expensive, so I do look for quality workmanship as well as an accurate, reliable translation.

    Having been primarily an NIV reader for the last 10 years, I have been searching for a more literal translation that still reads smoothly; that is the reason for my consideration of the ESV.

    What do you suggest?
     
  4. Rippon

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    Okay.

    The ESV reads smoothy in spots.But it primarily reads awkwardly.Use the search function to see threads I started about this very theme.

    I would suggest the TNIV which is slighly more formally-equivalent than the NIV (at least in the NT).The CSB is a tad more formal than the TNIV but much more readable than the ESV.
     
  5. Priscilla Ann

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    I had't considered the TNIV. Perhaps I'll take a look.

    Thanks for the suggestion...
     
  6. Thermodynamics

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    I do believe that the binding on a Bible is important. Of course it is not as important as what is inside, but it is still important.

    As Christians we cherish God's Word and we often become attached to our Bible(s). I don't want to plop down my hard earned money on a Bible, get used to it and then have it fall apart on me. I tend to remember where things are in a certain Bible and sometimes can't find them in a different Bible.

    If you have a Bible that you take notes in you would hate to have it fall apart and lose your notes. Of course you could have it rebound if it is a sewn binding, but a good rebinding will cost anywhere from $100 to $300.
     
  7. OldRegular

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    I have an ESV. Haven't used it much so cannot respond to Rippon's points but the binding and print are on par with most Bibles of comparable cost. If you really want a top quality leather you will have to pay about twice as much.

    For a modern translation I would suggest the NASB [not the 95 version] or the NKJV as opposed to the NIV. Am not familiar with the TNIV but if it is anything like the NIV I would put it on par with Ken Taylor"s version.
     
  8. Priscilla Ann

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    Exactly right! I do become attached to my favorite bible(s); they are expensive, so I expect them to withstand many years of daily use.
     
  9. Rippon

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    You are speaking out of ignorance.You show no discernment here.In other areas such as theology you are much better.The LB has about as much in common with the TNIV as ice tea has with milk.
     
  10. Thermodynamics

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    Glad I am not the only one!
     
  11. Thermodynamics

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    I am not sure who Ken Taylor is or what his version was, so I can't address that. However, I have done just a little research on the TNIV after seeing someone else mention it in another thread.

    Based on what I have seen I would not want a TNIV. It adds to and/or takes away from what is stated in the original manuscripts in order to be "gender inclusive." For example where the original uses the Greek word "adelphos" which is properly translated "brother," the TNIV will translate it as "brothers and sisters." In my humble opinion that sort of translation philosphy is treading on very dangerous ground.
     
  12. Rippon

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    So,armed with your scant new knowledge taken from (I'm sure) pro-ESV sources you have made up your young mind.That's not the right approach.

    Your "humble opinion" is duly noted.Are you also uninformed with the ESV?It has on 151 occasions put "or brothers and sisters" in the foonotes when its text has "brothers".
     
    #12 Rippon, Feb 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2009
  13. Thermodynamics

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    Rippon, are you having a bad day or do you always act like this?
     
  14. TC

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    I have heard complaints of Crossway's leather ESV Bibles being cheaply made and falling apart quickly. So, I bought a hardcover ESV Reference Bible. It has lasted me a few years now and is still like new. Even though some people complain about the language of the ESV, I find it very readable. There is no doubt that it could be better in spots, but that in no way detracts from the usefulness of the translation.
     
  15. Rippon

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    I'm feeling good even though my vacation is now over.
     
  16. thomas15

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    In my not so humble opinion, the NIV you have is fine for reading and studying however I understand the desire to change translations from time to time. I'm personally on record as having stated that I believe the ESV does not live up to the hype. The new ESV study Bible has a lot of stuff and is nice to read but it weighs a ton. The reformation study Bible is not that good in my opinion. But understand that I perfer a study Bible that is theological (i.e Ryrie).

    I have several different editions of the TNIV and while I don't read it much, it is to be honest a very good translation. The negative press it gets regarding the gender neutral feature is not warranted in my opinion. I have checked some of the greek words that are presented gender neutral against A T Robertsons word pictures, Vincents Word studies, and several other greek dictionaries and lexicons and see no problem with the TNIV rendering.

    I like the NASB 95 update for a formal modern translation based on the NA-USB text. I also like the NJKV as a modern TR based translation. When I'm feeling lazy but want to read, I grab the NLTse.

    So, here is my advice Priscilla Ann. Buy a paperback copy of some or all of the versions you my think you would enjoy. Simple.

    I bought a hard cover ESV at a used book store for $3.00. At a "odd lots" store, I bought a hard cover TNIV with CD for $5.99, they had paperback copies for $2.99. I have a NLT paper used- I paid $1.00 for and I have a really nice hard cover NASB 95 I paid $3.00

    I'm always buying Bibles to give away so when I see a deal, I just get it. I have bought a few good study Bibles off ebay for around $8.00 and I bought a like new NIV study Bible at a yard sale for $2.00. So just look around for deals.
     
  17. TCGreek

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    You're just being reckless.
     
  18. TCGreek

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    The TNIV is a great translation.

    Forget about the ESV. Period.
     
  19. franklinmonroe

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    I admit I struggle with this a bit, too (since "sisters" is not directly supported by a Greek word). I think nearly all versions have 'expansions' someplace. But if in the context adelphos is addressing the Church body including female members then I can accept it. I also appreciate translator footnotes referencing the actual Greek word.

    But you don't literally exclude women because of the masculine case, do you? What is the objectionable difference between getting the full meaning from a commentary (or preacher) or if that explanation is just included in the text.
     
  20. TCGreek

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    Greek gender has little to do with physical gender.

    Of course sisters were involved in the vocative adelphoi.

    Part of the translation task is to capture the significance of a term. A greek term is used to describe what is.

    Responsible translating would bring this out or an approximation.

    "Brothers and sisters" better renders adelphoi than simply "brothers," when a mixed audience is in view.
     

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