ESV Receptivity

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by TomVols, Sep 7, 2001.

  1. TomVols

    TomVols
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    How well received do y'all believe the ESV will be? It is an unabashedly conservative translation endorsed by a "who's who" list of conservative, solid thelogians and pastors. Still, will it find enough usage to be a major contender? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
     
  2. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
    How well received do y'all believe the ESV will be? It is an unabashedly conservative translation endorsed by a "who's who" list of conservative, solid thelogians and pastors. Still, will it find enough usage to be a major contender? I'd like to hear your thoughts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Tom:

    I believe that the ESV will become the new English standard. There has been a lot of dissatisfaction with the NIV in recent years; the NASB is viewed as accurate but as bland as the phone book, and the NKJV is literate but based on an underlying text most scholars view as weak. The ESV is literate, accurate and based on the scholarly texts.

    Most version choices up to now have been chosen as the one with the least weaknesses.
    While no version si perfect, I think the ESV will finally become the recognized replacement of the KJV. Most evaluations concur with this recommendation:

    "The ESV is the text I have been waiting for my entire life. I appreciate greatly both its fluency of language and its lucidity of expression, thanks to the brilliant work of the translation team. We owe them a very great debt."
    Rev. Ranald Macaulay
    L'Abri Fellowship

    See
    Other recommendations
     
  3. Pioneer

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    They just keep getting better and better. Maybe someday they will discover that God was right all along. Just read the KJV 1611 and you will find the truth that will set you free.

    P.S. Don't you know that recommendations by some well known personality is a good money maker? TV advertising at its best.

    [ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]
     
  4. DocCas

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    I will answer this the same way I answered it the last time it was asked.

    The ESV is based on the Alexandrian text-form and those who prefer the Byzantine text-form (and that group is rapidly growing) will not accept it.

    It is also based on the RSV, which has a very bad reputation and may thusly be hurt by its association with a failed translation. Rememver the ASV 1901 failed due to similar reasons.
     
  5. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pioneer:
    They just keep getting better and better. Maybe someday they will discover that God was right all along. Just read the KJV 1611 and you will find the truth that will set you free.

    P.S. Don't you know that recommendations by some well known personality is a good money maker? TV advertising at its best.

    [ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Please ... there is enough KJVO palaber on other threads to fill up several volumes. :eek:

    Please leave this thread alone for sane discussions of an important and accurate new English version.
    :rolleyes:
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    It seems to me that the thing that keeps the KJV Only controversy alive will also keep the ESV from gaining widespread acceptance. What is mean is that people love the KJV because it is what they were saved on and it has such a strong tradition. I would guess that the vast majority of people saved in the last 20 years or so are now using the NIV (for better or worse) and thus will find it very difficult to change for them. I dont' think there will be an NIV Only controversy because people who use the NIV generally seem to understand the fallacy of the KJV Only arguments. But they will hold to the NIV for sentimental reasons, just as many people hold to the KJV.

    I read some of it, not much though. I was not all that enamored with it personally. It seems a good translation but not substantially better than the NASB95 or the NIV, IMHO.
     
  7. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
    What is mean is that people love the KJV because it is what they were saved on and it has such a strong tradition... But they will hold to the NIV for sentimental reasons, just as many people hold to the KJV. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree. One of the reasons I love the NKJV is it was the first translation I read as a new believer. And there is nothing worng with a person having a reasonable attachment to a particular version.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I read some of it, not much though. I was not all that enamored with it personally. It seems a good translation but not substantially better than the NASB95 or the NIV, IMHO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    OF course, when you have multiple translations in English, how different can they all be? Still, I think the ESV is much anticipated, due to the lack of total satisfaction I stated above with the NASB, NKJV and especially the NIV. I do believe the ESV is the translation the NKJV and NASB should have been. [​IMG]
     
  8. Pioneer

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    Every new version that comes out makes the claim of importance and accuracy. With all the new versions that have hit the market in the last 120 years you would think by now somebody would get it right. Obviously the so-called scholars are getting it wrong each and every time.

    Bro. Steve Smith

    P.S. Since this particular "translation" claims the RSV as its starting point then there is an important conclusion that we can make without even looking at it: The ones who are recommending it are obviously apostates.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
    Please leave this thread alone for sane discussions of an important and accurate new English version. :rolleyes:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  9. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pioneer:


    Bro. Steve Smith

    P.S. Since this particular "translation" claims the RSV as its starting point then there is an important conclusion that we can make without even looking at it: The ones who are recommending it are obviously apostates.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Of course they are :rolleyes: they believe in the inerrant, infallible word God, and relaible translations thereof. Such names as:

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE> Dr. Clifford John Collins, OT Chairman
    Associate Professor of Old Testament Covenant Theological Seminary
    S.B., Massachusetts Institute of Technology
    S.M., Massachusetts Institute of Technology
    M.Div., Faith Evangelical Lutheran Seminary
    Ph.D., University of Liverpool

    Dr. Lane T. Dennis, Publishing Chairman
    President, Good News Publishers-Crossway Books
    B.S., Northern Illinois University
    M.Div., McCormick Theological Seminary
    Ph.D., Northwestern University

    Dr. Wayne A. Grudem
    Professor and Chairman, Department of Biblical and Systematic Theology, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
    B.A., Harvard University
    M.Div., Westminster Theological Seminary
    Ph.D., University of Cambridge

    Dr. Paul R. House, OT Associate Chairman
    Professor of Old Testament Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry
    B.A., Southwest Baptist University
    M.A., University of Missouri-Columbia
    M.Div., The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
    Ph.D., The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

    Dr. R. Kent Hughes
    Senior Pastor, College Church in Wheaton
    B.A., Whittier College
    M.Div., Talbot Theological Seminary
    D.Min., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

    Dr. Robert H. Mounce, NT Associate Chairman
    President Emeritus, Whitworth College
    B.A., University of Washington
    B.D., Fuller Theological Seminary
    Th.M., Fuller Theological Seminary
    Ph.D., University of Aberdeen

    Dr. William D. Mounce, NT Chairman
    Professor of New Testament Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
    B.A., Bethel College
    M.A., Fuller Theological Seminary
    Ph.D., University of Aberdeen

    Dr. J. I. Packer, ESVTM General Editor
    Board of Governors and Professor of Theology Regent College (Vancouver, BC)
    B.A., Oxford University
    M.A., Oxford University
    D.Phil., Oxford University

    Dr. Leland Ryken, Literary Chairman
    Professor of English, Wheaton College
    B.A., Central College
    Ph.D., University of Oregon

    Dr. Vern Sheridan Poythress
    Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary
    B.S., California Institute of Technology
    Ph.D., Harvard University
    M.Div., Westminster Theological Seminary
    Th.M., Westminster Theological Seminary
    M.Litt., University of Cambridge
    D.Th., University of Stellenbosch

    Dr. Gordon Wenham, OT Associate Chairman
    Senior Lecturer in Religious Studies, The College of St. Paul and St. Mary (Cheltenham, England)
    B.A., Cambridge University
    M.A., Cambridge University
    Ph.D., King's College, London University

    Dr. Bruce Winter
    Warden, Tyndale House (Cambridge, England)
    B. A., University of Queensland
    M.Theo., SEA Graduate School
    Ph.D., Macquarie University
    Adjunct Members

    Rev. David Jones
    ESVTM Associate Editor
    Good News Publishers-Crossway Books
    Rev. E. Marvin Padgett
    Vice President, Editorial
    Good News Publishers-Crossway Books

    Advisory Council The Advisory Council includes people from many denominational backgrounds from around the world. All are widely recognized for their evangelical leadership, and are people who love God’s Word and affirm the inerrancy of the Bible.
    Rev. Eric J. Alexander
    Retired Pastor, St. George's-Tron Parish Church
    Scotland, UK
    Dr. Don H. Argue
    President, Northwest College
    Kirkland, WA
    Dr. Hudson T. Armerding
    President Emeritus, Wheaton College
    Wheaton, IL
    Dr. S. M. Baugh
    Associate Professor of New Testament Westminster
    Theological Seminary
    Escondido, CA
    Rev. Alistair Begg
    Senior Pastor, Parkside Church
    Bainbridge, OH
    The Rt. Rev. Bishop Wallace Benn
    Bishop of Lewes, Church of England
    Eastbourne, UK
    Dr. Harold O. J. Brown
    Professor of Systematic Theology
    Reformed Theological Seminary
    Charlotte, NC
    Lady Elizabeth Catherwood
    Editor, London, UK
    Sir Fred Catherwood
    President, Evangelical Alliance
    London, UK
    Dr. Bryan Chapell
    President, Covenant Theological Seminary
    St. Louis, MO
    Dr. Edmund P. Clowney
    President Emeritus, Westminster Theological Seminary
    Escondido, CA
    Dr. Jack Cottrell
    Professor of Theology
    Cincinnati Bible Seminary
    Cincinnati, OH
    Dr. Jack Deere
    President, Evangelical Foundation Ministries
    Dallas, TX
    Rev. Jon M. Dennis
    Associate Pastor, Holy Trinity Church
    Hyde Park, Chicago, IL
    Dr. Ajith Fernando
    National Director, Youth for Christ
    Sri Lanka
    Rev. Dr. Paul Gardner
    Vicar, St. Johns Church
    Hartford, UK
    Dr. Timothy George
    Dean, Beeson Divinity School
    Birmingham, AL
    Dr. Scott J. Hafemann
    Professor, Greek and Exegesis
    Hawthorne Chair of New Testament
    Wheaton College
    Wheaton, IL
    Rev. David Helm
    Senior Pastor, Holy Trinity Church
    Chicago, IL
    Dr. Carl F. H. Henry
    Theologian and Founding Editor of Christianity Today
    Watertown, WI
    Rev. Todd Hunter
    National Director, Association of Vineyard Churches, USA
    Anaheim, CA
    Dr. W. Bingham Hunter
    Sr. Vice President for Education and Academic Dean Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
    Deerfield, IL
    Rev. Phillip D. Jensen
    Rector, St. Matthias Church
    Sydney, Australia
    Dr. S. Lewis Johnson, Jr.
    Former Professor of Biblical and Systematic Theology
    Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
    Deerfield, IL
    Dr. Kenneth Kantzer
    Dean Emeritus and Distinguished Professor
    Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
    Deerfield, IL
    Dr. Robert Lewis
    Teaching Pastor, Fellowship Bible Church
    Little Rock, AR
    Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer Pastor, Moody Church
    Chicago, IL
    Rev. Ranald Macaulay
    L'Abri Fellowship, Cambridge, UK
    Mrs. Susan Schaeffer Macaulay
    L'Abri Fellowship, Cambridge, UK

    Dr. Dennis R. Magary
    Associate Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages
    Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
    Deerfield, IL
    Dr. Walter A. Maier III
    Professor of Old Testament
    Concordia Theological Seminary
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.
    President
    The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
    Louisville, KY
    Dr. Joel H. Nederhood
    Director of Ministries Emeritus
    Back to God Hour
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Rev. Raymond C. Ortlund
    President, Renewal Ministries
    Newport Beach, CA
    Dr. Raymond C. Ortlund, Jr.
    Pastor, First Presbyterian Church
    Augusta, GA
    Dr. Douglas A. Oss
    Pastor, Capital Christian Center
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Dr. John N. Oswalt
    Research Professor of Old Testament
    Wesley Biblical Seminary
    Jackson, MS
    Dr. Dorothy Kelley Patterson
    Assistant Professor of Women's Studies
    Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
    Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. Paige Patterson
    President, Southern Baptist Convention
    President, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. David Peterson
    Principal, Oak Hill College
    London, UK
    Dr. John Piper
    Senior Pastor, Bethlehem Baptist Church
    Minneapolis, MN
    Dr. Robert S. Ricker
    President, Baptist General Conference
    Arlington Heights, IL
    Dr. Thomas R. Schreiner
    Professor of New Testament Interpretation
    Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
    Louisville, KY
    Dr. J. Julius Scott, Jr.
    Professor of Biblical and Historical Studies
    Wheaton College
    Wheaton, IL
    Dr. R. C. Sproul
    Chairman, Ligonier Ministries
    Lake Mary, FL
    Dr. Joseph M. Stowell
    President, Moody Bible Institute
    Chicago, IL
    Dr. Mark R. Talbot
    Associate Professor of Philosophy
    Wheaton College
    Wheaton, IL
    Dr. Willem A. VanGemeren
    Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages
    Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
    Deerfield, IL
    Dr. John F. Walvoord
    Chancellor, Dallas Theological Seminary
    Dallas, TX
    Dr. Gregory Waybright
    President, Trinity International University
    Deerfield, IL
    Dr. Luder G. Whitlock
    President, Reformed Theological Seminary
    Jackson, MS
    Dr. Tetsunao Yamamori
    President, Food for the Hungry
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Dr. Robert W. Yarbrough
    Associate Professor of New Testament
    Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
    Deerfield, IL
    Rev. John W. Yates II
    Rector, The Falls Church
    Falls Church, VA[/list]

    P.S. Don't use the monicker "Bro." and call fellow believers apostate.

    [ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]
     
  10. Pioneer

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    2 questions:

    #1 - What is the "inerrant, infallible word of God"?

    #2 - Are you saying that the RSV is a "reliable translation".

    Bro. Steve Smith

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
    Of course they are: they believe in the inerrant, infallible word God, and relaible translations thereof. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  11. John Wells

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    Pioneer,

    Please study up on all the threads in this forum. The questions you are asking have already been hashed over a gazillion times!
     
  12. TomVols

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    Obviously the Byzantine only or the KJVonly camps will not accept the ESV, though I have read a time or two where the ESV opts for the Byzantine reading (Cf. Rom 8:28) and there may be more. Anyone who rejects the ESV solely out of distrust of the RSV simply is not doing their homework. This is the whole reason for the new translation in the first place. The RSV was a literal translation that had liberal leanings at places. This is being corrected in the ESV, and anyone who takes time to look at the facts will know that.

    Larry and Chris have actually touched on what I was getting at, namely, will the conservative, Bible believing camp readily switch from their NASB or NIV to the ESV. KJV folks won't switch, and we all know that. People who are sentimentally attached to one translation or another will not switch unless it is over a long period of time. My big question is will the ESV cut into the NASB folks like myself or NKJV folks who are looking for a translation based on the stronger mss evidence. This is where the ESV will make gains, if at all.
     
  13. Pioneer

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    This has nothing to do with other threads. Proponents of any modern version always refer to the "original autographs" when speaking of the "inerrant, infallible word of God" which has absolutely nothing to do with the here and now. Secondly, the RSV is an apostate translation that is promoted by the National Council of Churches.

    Bro. Steve Smith


    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
    Pioneer,

    Please study up on all the threads in this forum. The questions you are asking have already been hashed over a gazillion times!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]
     
  14. John Wells

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    Pioneer,

    Your first post/statement demonstrates a narrowminded view and lack of knowledge concerning the advances in recent years in the understanding of the ancient languages and in the customs and culture that archaeology have benefitted us, in rendering superior translations. The KJV is a beautiful translation, but God did not stamp it "Final Edition!" Since you seem to think God did, please provide evidence of it, scripturally or otherwise.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pioneer:
    Proponents of any modern version always refer to the "original autographs" when speaking of the "inerrant, infallible word of God" which has absolutely nothing to do with the here and now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Only if you deny that the here and now (extant manuscripts) came from the original autographs. The original autographs are the only thing that inspiration and inerrancy can be argued for. What we have now is the fruit of years of copying.

    At some point you must admit that there are no two manuscripts that match. They are all different and none is complete. How in the world do you decide which of those manuscripts are the "right ones"?

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Secondly, the RSV is an apostate translation that is promoted by the National Council of Churches.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    But it doesn't concern you that the KJV was translated and grew out of the apostate Anglican church? You need to be consistent. In the old saying, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

    Of course, we are a bit out of the topic here and as Wells said, this has been hashed to death in other forums.
     
  16. TomVols

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    Pastor Larry wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Of course, we are a bit out of the topic here and as Wells said, this has been hashed to death in other forums. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh go on, this has never stopped anyone else :D
    So your vote is that you will not "switch."
    Chris, what about you? Anyone else?
     
  17. Bob Alkire

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    Chris, Pastor Larry is right on the point that alot of people won't change because they used the KJV (as I did in the 50's) or another when they became christians.
    I like the KJV the best and it is like an old friend, I'm not about to trade my wife in, she has been around for a long time also. I know her well as I know my bible. Now I do have the NAS,NKJ and NIV but to me I'll stay with the old one.
    Some people like change, some live for change and some like to leave well enough alone.
    Of what I've read of other version they are for the most part the same,so why change.
    I can see a need for the new versions, because of the lack of good education in our public schools.
    I think most will stay with what they started studing with.
    Not trying to say anything bad about the ESV.
     
  18. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
    Pastor Larry wrote:

    Oh go on, this has never stopped anyone else :D
    So your vote is that you will not "switch."
    Chris, what about you? Anyone else?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I do believe that the majority of evangelical pastor/teachers/professors will switch to the ESV. A couple of ministries like John Piper's and Erwin Lutzer's have already decided to do so. It seems that mostly those who use the NASB will switch to the ESV as its the smoothest transition.

    But I realize many will not, especially KJV users. But once people's favorite author/preacher begins using it, so will many of the people as well. ;)
     
  19. Jude

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    The ESV may indeed be THE conservative translation of this new century. The NIV, however, is such a popular translation, with a wide-variety of 'helps' and curriculum that use it, it will not be easy for the ESV to 'topple' 'King NIV'! I am surprised that the folks at the ESV-factory didn't get this new Bible out BEFORE the 'school year' began. Some 'classes' have had to 'opt' for another conservative translation other than the ESV because it simply was not available. My own church is a 'case-in-point'. I am leading an in-depth 33 week Bible study, and had to pick the NIV as the biblical text, but would have loved to had the ESV available. I'm also surprised that the ESV didn't publish an Apocrypha, as the Orthodox (and maybe even RC) would have loved this translation in their churches.
     
  20. TomVols

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    Jude,
    Given the make-up of the translation committee of the ESV and the endorsers of the ESV, I don't think the Apocrypha was ever even a consideration, thus no way anyone who accepts the Apocrypha or the RCC would accept the ESV.
     

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