Eternal dwelling in heaven or hell

Traditionalists insist torment is everlasting because they believe the soul is eternal.

When asked for proof that the soul is eternal, they claim phrases like ‘tormented forever and ever’ and ‘everlasting punishment’ prove the soul is eternal.

It would be very difficult to give more obvious examples of the circular reasoning used by traditionalists to prove their viewpoint.

 

We believe in everlasting torment because God says so.

 

Marcia, I agree whole-heartedly with you that spirit beings cannot be destroyed. Jude might have even given us a hint of what is to become of Satan and his demons, when he says "wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 13).

It might be that in the case of Satan and the demons, they will be mentally tormented, standing in outer darkness for eternity.

You all have a happy 4th of July !!!

Pray for the safety of our great country.

God Bless everyone everyday!

 

Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Something to think about, Wopik, is that this verse in Jude is referring to men; not Satan and demons.

Jim

 

Jim

What makes some people think this can be talking about Satan and his demons as "wandering stars" - Jude 13 - is that stars can be biblical symbols for angels (Rev 1:20). And Satan and his demons are fallen angels.

Might there not be a dual meaning here?

 

A good example of this is when Saul tries to contact the dead Samuel.

Samuel was dead (1 Sam. 25:1). If, as some believe, he went to heaven, Satan would not have been given permission to bring him down in response to the incantations of a wicked woman.

Also God had already refused to communicate by dreams, Urim, or prophets (1 Sam 28:6).

The Lord's disapproval is recorded in 1Chron. 10:13, 14, noting that Saul died for his transgressions. He inquired of an evil spirit and not of the Lord.

The figure that appeared to the spiritualist woman was an impersonation of the prophet by an evil angel, perhaps by Satan himself. If he could transform himself to appear as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14), he could also appear as the prophet Samuel.