Eternal Justification

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Frogman, Sep 24, 2004.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    A
    DEFENCE
    OF THE
    DOCTRINE
    OF
    Eternal Justification
    FROM SOME
    EXCEPTIONS made to it
    BY
    Mr. BRAGGE, and others.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    By JOHN BRINE

    Eternal Justification
     
  2. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    0
    Frogman,

    I have read both Brine and Gill's arguments for eternal justification. There can be no dispute that Abraham had a justifying righteousness, for his faith evidenced that (Romans 4). I believe the blood of the everlasting covenant justified those under the old covenant before it was actually shed. However, we learn from Romans 3:25 that those sins remitted before the atonement was actually made were so by the forebearance (Gr. anoche) of God. God deferred His judgment based on the suretyship of Christ. To a certain degree, then, I do believe in eternal justification. However, they did not have the peace of conscience afforded us today in the Gospel (Hebrews 9:9). They had a dim perception of the glorious truth of justification through the types and shadows of the law.
     
  3. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Primitive Baptist,

    This is one major part of theology that I agree with you about. Justification is once for all. I liked your insight and post. Hebrews 9:12 speaks to the fact and reality of our ' . . . eternal redemption.'
     
  4. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Brother Pinyobaptist and Brother Ray,
    Would you each agree with Brine that God does not have two ways of justification. The argument, for lack of a better word, against having a way for infants which stems from a 'habit' of faith and that of mature elect individuals stemming from the action of faith?

    I have a question that has bothered me and yet bothers me, What did Christ mean when he said to the Jews that Abraham longed to see his day and he saw it and rejoiced therein?

    What is the promise

    If not that which is discussed in Hebrews 11:13

    </font>
    • These all died in faith,</font>
    • not having received the promises</font>
    • but having seen them afar off</font>
    • and were persuaded of them</font>
    • and embraced them</font>
    • and confessed they were strangers</font>
    • [and] confessed they were pilgrims on the earth</font>
    I am not necessarily disagreeing with your statement; however, imho, this makes evidence of these all dieing in faith, being persuaded of the promises, and even embracing them; even though it is from afar off very real to me.

    May God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]

    BTW, I am having an easier time understanding Brine's writing than Gill's. I have read Gill's and maybe after finishing Brine's I will have an easier time of understanding Gill??? :confused:
     
  5. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is a passage of scripture that would seem related to Eternal Justification. I thought about posting it under another topic thread, but it is related to the passage in Hebrews 11:13.

    </font>
    • The Lord hath appeared of old unto me,...</font>
    3068. [email protected]

    hwhy [email protected] yeh-ho-vaw'

    from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

    See Hebrew 1961
    See Hebrew 3050
    See Hebrew 3069

    7200. ra'ah

    har ra'ah raw-aw'

    a primitive root; to see, literally or figuratively (in numerous applications, direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative):--advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions.

    7350. rachowq

    qwxr rachowq raw-khoke'

    or rachoq {raw-khoke'}; from 7368; remote, literally or figuratively, of place or time; specifically, precious; often used adverbially (with preposition):--(a-)far (abroad, off), long ago, of old, space, great while to come.

    See Hebrew 7368

    157. 'ahab

    bha 'ahab aw-hab'

    or raheb {aw-habe'}; a primitive root; to have affection for:--(be-)love(-d, -ly, -r), like, friend.

    5769. `owlam

    Mlwe `owlam o-lawm'

    or lolam {o-lawm'}; from 5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always:--alway(-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, (n-))ever(-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare 5331, 5703.

    See Hebrew 5956
    See Hebrew 5331
    See Hebrew 5703

    160. 'ahabah

    hbha 'ahabah a-hab-aw

    feminine of 158 and meaning the same:--love.

    See Hebrew 158

    2617. checed
    Search for H2617 in KJVSL
    dox checed kheh'-sed

    from 2616; kindness; by implication (towards God) piety: rarely (by opposition) reproof, or (subject.) beauty:--favour, good deed(-liness, -ness), kindly, (loving-)kindness, merciful (kindness), mercy, pity, reproach, wicked thing.

    See Hebrew 2616

    4900. mashak

    Kvm mashak maw-shak'

    a primitive root; to draw, used in a great variety of applications (including to sow, to sound, to prolong, to develop, to march, to remove, to delay, to be tall, etc.):--draw (along, out), continue, defer, extend, forbear, X give, handle, make (pro-, sound)long, X sow, scatter, stretch out.

    The vs. is particular: That everlasting love is from eternity.

    Bro. Dallas
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I agree. God justifies sinners based on the blood of Christ alone. There is only one method of justification; the decree of God to justify! Brine is a bit easier to understand.
     
  7. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Primitive Baptist,
    I mistook you for pinyobaptist, sorry to both of you for my mistake.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    That can not be sustained by the Bible. In Matt 17 Moses and Elijah stand with Christ with FULL "peace of Conscience".

    In Heb 11 we are told that in the OT they were "accepted" by God.

    In Romans 4 we find that Abraham WAS justified. We find the same point made in James 2 regarding Abraham.

    "HAving BEEN Justified we HAVE PEACE with God" Romans 5:1-2. Justification ALONE provides that.

    The argument that Justification did NOT bring peace - is not supported in all of scripture. It is - another Gospel.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brother Bob,
    Do you believe the OT saints possessed the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

    Would Moses and Elijah be in a different position than other saints of the period prior to the beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hebrews 9:9 - Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offerred both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

    Romans 5:1 is speaking of believers NOW.

    Have a nice day. [​IMG]

    And by the way, I never said that believers in the Old Testament had NO peace, but that they did not have the peace afforded us today in the gospel.
     
  11. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    "What did Christ mean when he said to the Jews that Abraham longed to see his day and he saw it and rejoiced therein?"

    Seems obvious that Abraham accepted prior teaching that God would send a Messiah. No need to make a big deal out it.

    "Blood of Christ" . . . euphanism for life and death, not serum and hemoglobin.
     
  12. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    There is only one Gospel. There is only one new Birth. ALL mankind are born totally depraved (even Moses and Elijah) and they ALL had only one solution - the New Birth, the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, the new creation, faith in Christ etc.

    It only -- ever -- worked that way in all of time.

    The ritual/ceremony/liturgy of the church may change between OT and NT -- but humans are still humans and God is still God. The Gospel solution is that man is convicted, repents, is born again and then walks in the spirit, by faith and not by sight as the new creation.

    There is no other Gospel.

    Heb 4:1 the Gospel was preached to US just as it was to them ALSO.

    If you go down the path of saying that all the Gospel elements seen in the OT are "exceptions for that time" then you might as well do it in the NT as well. If the Bible becomes a big list of "Exceptions" then you can learn almost nothing from it about the way things really work.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

Share This Page

Loading...