Eternal Life

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by HankD, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. HankD

    HankD
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    Recently there was a question concerning the Law and if one could be saved by keeping the Law in the age of the Law of Moses.

    Personally, in my view of Scripture, one is, has and will ever be saved by grace through faith.

    What then can be the explanation of the following passage?

    Mark 10
    17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
    18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
    19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
    20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
    21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
    22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
    23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!


    HankD​
     
  2. Johnv

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    The passage isn't one of the law, it's one of the heart. The man loved his possessions more than anything. He thought he could get away with this and still be eligible for the Kindgom. But unless he changes his attitude about his possessions, he won't be eligible for the Kingdom.

    It's no different than someone robbing a bank. Imagine that the robber later confesses his crime, but he keeps the money. That's not an attitude of true repentence, is it? He needs to give back the money in order to be truly repentant.
     
  3. HankD

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    OK John, lets put that concept to the test.

    This is not a criticism but a rebutal to your statement.

    If I go to a jail and counsel a bank robber and he asks me what he must do to inherit eternal life, I should tell him to give back the money he stole?

    Secondly what is wrong with riches? Especially for this young man who apparently received his riches through ligitimate means as he witnessed that he had kept the law (Do not steal), etc.

    Third, "Jesus beholding him loved him,"

    Jesus does not ultimately give a direct answer to the young man's question. In a parallel passage He says "If thou wilt be perfect, go ...
    and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:"

    I think this young man had already received the grace and the faith to believe apart from the law, his obedience to the law an evidence (not the cause) of his salvation.

    IMO, he was already saved, Jesus therefore loved Him and desired for him to be "perfect" (mature, sanctified) and have "reward in heaven".

    Just an opinion.

    Thanks
    HankD
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    I think the answer to the OP question is yes, but with a big if.

    If one could keep the law perfectly, then he could gain entrance to heaven.

    If one could keep the law perfectly, he wouldn't have to make all those bloody animal sacrifices.

    Of course, we can't keep it perfectly, and that means we're in big trouble.

    Unless somebody who could keep it perfectly would be willing to take our punishment for us. Wonder where we'd find such a man?
     
  5. Johnv

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    Obviously, one of the things you're going to tell him is that he needs to repent. A person who steals something can't claim to repent, and then keep the item he stole. Part of repenting is making an effort tp return what which you stole.
    Absolutely nothing. I'm all for wealth, because the poor cannot help the poor. Jesus isn't against money. He's against love of money. The person in the OP loved money. That was his problem. There was nothing wrong with him being wealthy in and of itself.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
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    Yes the "perfect" keeping of the law a definite possibility.

    HankD
     
  7. webdog

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    They would still have the stain of sin on their being, and the flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom. Keeping the Law perfectly is not only an impossibility, but would still not grant one into the Kingdom. We are saved by grace through faith...keeping the law perfectly is in violation of this concept.
     
  8. webdog

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    I think you hit on the key of the story. Jesus was looking for repentance primarily, and obedience...what the law is. This is saving faith.
     
  9. kyredneck

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    Hello Hank. Some quick points from my two cents worth:

    "Jesus beholding him loved him' makes me think that he was not a child of the devil.

    3 .......If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
    5 ........ If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God; Jn 3 YLT

    I believe it a mistake to equate the kingdom of God with heaven or eternal life exclusively. IMO, just because one is born from above does not mean that that person will necessarily enter into, or even see the kingdom of God, practically, on earth.

    Also note the REAL condition that Jesus gave him,”...sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.” We all know that that is not a condition we have to meet to be born again.

    To me, this is like Paul telling Timothy, “ lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called”. Timothy had eternal life, all God's redeemed have it. IMO, few actually lay hold on it in this time world.
     
  10. HankD

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    Yes, "repent" meaning to change one's mind which is what the rebirth is, all things are made new including the mind.

    So if "perfection" means justification then he was still lacking eternal life since there had been no regeneration.

    In my view "perfection" means sanctification, so whatever his post-salvation works were they would be "wood, hay, stubble". For this young man to be mature and sanctified he would have to sell all and follow Jesus. Some believe this young man was John.

    An aside:
    For each of us, I believe "sanctification" (practical) is a personal thing between the individual and the Holy Spirit apart from a common requirement:

    1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality.

    So, in that part you are correct John, his love of money was holding him back from perfection (maturity).

    HankD
     
  11. HankD

    HankD
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    Hi kyredneck,
    I believe we hold to the same principle.

    HankD
     
  12. kyredneck

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    “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”

    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep.
    14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me, Jn 10
     
  13. OldRegular

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    Didn't the Apostle Paul state: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [Romans 3:20] and,

    Galatians 2:16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. and,

    Galatians 3:11. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
     
  14. JMSR

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    Keeping (or not completely keeping) the law had led him to this point, which is it's purpose. The important thing is the "follow me".
     
  15. kyredneck

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    Yeah, you're right. :)
     
  16. Aaron

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    It means just what it says. If one could obey the law, he would be a righteous man and eternal life would be given him as something he had earned.

    But no one keeps the law, because no one is righteous. (Forget this "perfectly" poo-poo, no one even begins to keep the law.) Christ's instruction to the ruler was one that showed him that he really had not kept the law as he had boasted. He was guilty of covetousness, which means that in his heart he was guilty of the whole law.
     
    #16 Aaron, Dec 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2009
  17. David Michael Harris

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    Can you explain your thoughts on this a bit more, with the use of Scripture, it's an area that interests me.

    David
     
  18. webdog

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    It sounds like the doctrine of Millennial Exclusion...which has been banned here at the BB.
     
  19. David Michael Harris

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    Thanks webdog, not up on that one, is it new?
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    Yes, keeping the Law perfectly is impossible to do, because of our sin nature. My question was mainly rhetorical, as, what if one could keep the law perfectly from birth to death? If one could (which they can't), would that be enough to get them into heaven?

    Let me add one more thought. Jesus himself imposed a further barrier to perfect law-keeping. One might not actually commit adultery, but Jesus said even thinking such thoughts was a sin.
     

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