Eternal Salvation?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by tyndale1946, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Can the grace wrought, blood bought child of God ever lose his Eternal Salvation?... Brother Glen
     
  2. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi Tyndale;
    Yes He Can;
    Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:26-29, 12:15-17, Mat.5:13, 12:31-32, 2nd Peter 2:20-22, 21:24, Luke8:13, 20:18, Romans 11:11, 1st.Cor.10:12, 1st.Tim.6:9, Heb.4:11, 2nd,Peter 2:10, 3:17, 1st Jn.5:16,Mk 1:26 Rev22:18-19,3:16 Jn 15:6.
    Is this enough to back it up?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    So then by your understanding of eternal salvation... Salvation is based upon the actions of the sinner and not the finished work of the Saviour?... Does the scriptures teach Salvation by your works or his saving grace?... It is either grace or works and you can't have both!... Brother Glen
     
  4. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Tyndale;
    Would you rather I just not respond so you can go on assuming that you know what I believe.
    Where did I say this?. I believe we are elected for Salvation not to Salvation. I believe that we are saved By Hope, Faith, and Grace. In That order. We first receive Faith from hearing the word this is a work of God. Not of men.

    Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    Although this is not regeneration so that we can hear. We simply never lost the ability to hear. I believe the only action of men is trust in God.

    Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

    We must first trust in Christ. Even Paul admits this is so. Trusting to be elected when you have no secure message from God that you are His elect. Is risky at best. We are chosen to have Salvation available to us. This is all election is. Other wise there was no need for a redeemer. We would been saved with out Him.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
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    Salvation is not BY grace, but DURING grace!

    Salvation is not by grace, but THROUGH FAITH while grace prevails.

    All of God's work of salvation, that is making salvation possible, has been completed. God's work is that we believe in the one who Sent Jesus to be human for a while. His work is finished it is now up to us to believe and thereby be saved.

    It is those who believe in Jesus that are not judged, while those who do not believe condemn themselves to the second death, the lake of fire.

    We humans do the FAITHING, God does the SAVING! WHAT WONDERFUL GRACE!
     
  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Then clarify this for me I have a deaf son who is 24 and has never heard the preached gospel in his life. He has a deaf sister 26... Both deaf since birth!... How does he hear the preached gospel?... If you are going to reply that both are under different circumstances I declare to you that God saves them the way he saves all his children by Spiritual Regeneration. He speaks to the heart and changes the stony heart to a heart of flesh by his work alone... So then according to you all who do not heard the gospel are lost... Not according to my bible!... By the way my children are both Christian and they got their belief not from church or me but straight from the eternal source God!... Brother Glen
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Tried to quote something you said but it didn't work. Anyway I havn't been here in a while and will relearn... Brother Glen
     
  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Salvation is not BY grace, but DURING grace!... :confused: Excuse me!... What is during grace?... Brother Glen
     
  9. Ray Berrian

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    John 3:16 says that those who believe will be given everlasting life. If it is eternal then nothing can break this never ending life.

    None of His created beings can 'lay anything to the charge of God's elect.' [Romans 8:33] Jesus makes intercession for us. [Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25; I John 1:1]

    Depending on His intercession means none of us can make it by ourselves. That is why we call Him Savior. It is all of grace. Pretty good for an Arminian, right?
     
  10. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
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    Who sinned to cause them to be deaf? Was it your children, or was it you!

    In this modern era, your deaf children can still hear with their eyes. Hearing means accepting the truth!
     
  11. Monergist

    Monergist
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    Hi Glen. Good to see you back-- haven't seen you around for awhile.

    I've been trying for weeks to figure out what Wes has been saying. Haven't got it yet! :confused:
     
  12. Wes Outwest

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    What is the true essence of Grace?
     
  13. GeneMBridges

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    We never know what we shall hear next, and perhaps it is a mercy that these absurdities are revealed one at a time, in order that we may be able to endure their stupidity without dying of amazement. (Spurgeon).
     
  14. GeneMBridges

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    Contrary to Ephesians 2:8, which verbatim says "For BY grace are you saved through faith..."

    Adding to the Scripture is prohibited in Revelation.

    This is an oxymoron, Wes. At least in the Calvinist view God actually saves all the elect from beginning to end. Your view is a powerless God that leaves salvation to chance. (That last word is directly from your own keyboard as you admitted this in this very forum last month). To say that God's work of salvation is only "making salvation possible," e.g. making mankind savable means, by definition, that God's work of salvation is NOT complete. That is exactly why your system is called SYNERGISM, and NOT MONERGISM.


    Actually, Jesus said He came to seek AND SAVE that which was lost, and Paul in his epistles uses verbs that refer to Jesus as work that are in the indicative mood and active, sometimes passive voice (if we are referred to, as in Romans 9) indicating actuality not potential. Your view, by definition, requires middle voices non-indicative moods in the verbs used. (That's a nice way of saying that your view is not supported by Scripture, not one line). Since you only believe He makes us savable and that He saves nobody independently, you make Jesus a liar. Also, if it is God's work that we believe and we are the ones that have believed, those that have yet to believe are the one's that accomplish God's work, not God. Thus you contradict yourself by your own statements, because those persons, not God complete the work by believing.

    And since you believe that Jesus death actually paid for the sins of all mankind, you believe God exacts double jeopardy, so their judgment and punishment is completely unjust.

    Because faith is a gift from God resulting from regeneration (Eph. 2:8,9 and John 3...the exegesis has been done so many times for you I'll not bother).

    Yes from beginning to end

    But you don't believe this. You believe it is your faith that saves you, not God, since He only makes you savable, contradicting Eph. 2:9. You have something to boast about and you make God a liar.
     
  15. Wes Outwest

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    Adding to the book of revelation is prohibited. When John wrote revelation there was no such thing as Fine Corinthian leather bound bible. There were only various writings making their way though the church.

    One would think that a fine astute biblical scholar such as you would know that.
     
  16. Wes Outwest

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    This is an oxymoron, Wes. At least in the Calvinist view God actually saves all the elect from beginning to end. Your view is a powerless God that leaves salvation to chance. (That last word is directly from your own keyboard as you admitted this in this very forum last month). To say that God's work of salvation is only "making salvation possible," e.g. making mankind savable means, by definition, that God's work of salvation is NOT complete. That is exactly why your system is called SYNERGISM, and NOT MONERGISM.</font>[/QUOTE]show us just how what you quoted is oxymoronic! Define oxymoron then diagram the sentence. Let's see your interpretation of oxymoron.
     
  17. Wes Outwest

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    Why yes he did, and the last thing he said before death what? __________________________ clue (Three little words)

    God's work is finished! He does no more toward the salvation of man, It is now up to man to do what God's work was all about, and that is POSSESS FAITH! You believe what God did for you and have fAITH in HIS Son, and Graciously you are saved!
     
  18. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi tyndale;
    I have deaf members in my family as well. There are many ways to hear other than through the ears. I know people who sign faster than I can talk. In Fact I have to ask them to slow down so I can understand what they're saying. The deaf here through signing. Some understand communication better than the hearing.
    Men are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. No where that I know of does the Bible say we are saved by any other means. We are not saved by election,regeneration,predestination,or God alone but by the blood of Jesus Christ.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  19. rc

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    [/QUOTE] We are not saved by election,regeneration,predestination,or God alone but by the blood of Jesus Christ.
    QUOTE]

    Forgot Romans 8?

    Romans 8:29-30 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

    So, to make things short, those He foreknew (verb), He glorified. And Christ's blood is the means to that end.
     
  20. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi RC;
    You forgot about What Christ said. I will take the words of Christ over any Calvinist.
    Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father , save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

    You see Christ is the only way, and you and I never knew God without Christ. We are first revealed by Christ to the Father. :rolleyes:
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     

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