Featured Eternal Security the Acid test

Just wondering...

When did "once saved always saved" become the ACID TEST?

Considering that it is God that will be judging who is and who is not saved how is it even a doctrinal concern?

To me whether someone is "truly saved" is not something that any of us are in a postion to even know.

 

Here is a copy of a debate between a Baptist apologist, Steve Morrison, and a CoC apologist, Patrick Donahue on OSAS. I've just read the first section, which is the view of Donahue on losing salvation. There are a couple 'decent' arguments, but it can be easily seen that Donahue bases security of Salvation on doing, though if asked about that, he'd probably (I'm guessing) deny that it has anything to do with our doing. Maybe not.

I'll read the rest later.

This free module works in e-sword and is available here:

http://www.biblesupport.com/e-sword...steve-debate-on-once-saved-always-saved-2005/

 

I am not sure if this is the case in the information I've given. We will see how Morrison handles this CoC's interpretations and if he rebutts him via contextual analysis. I can say that the CoC apologist Donahue has taken some of his passages out of context, but of course I only took a quick minute to read it, so perhaps there is more.

 

By your rules one of the contexts that you are ignoring is the knowledge of Scripture that John possessed when writing John 6:39.

 

HP: Because something is the 'will of God' does not necessitate its coming to pass. For instance, it is Gods will, according to Scripture, that NONE should perish, and that ALL would have eternal life..... but all will not come to repentance even when it is God's will.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.



Jesus said in yet another place that He indeed HAD lost one in particular, Judas.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So Biblicist tries once again to rip a proof text out of the context of God's will, and tries in vain to make it walk on all four legs in support of a context he manufactures by his own imagination. The notion of OSAS is not supported by this Scripture or any other.

 

So you say if its the "will of God" that Jesus returns..... it might not happen? Just because?

 

You are quoting scripture when Jesus came to earth for his ministry. Jesus was receiving all to him who ALREADY belonged to God. Those are the only people Jesus was to save first, the lost sheep of Israel. The Jews who BELONGED to God BEFORE Jesus came; they are the people that Jesus would not lose. That scripture is only for that time and for those people.

NNE belongs to God anymore first. THEY FIRST GO through Jesus. They are NOT COMING AS ONE ALREADY BELONGING TO GOD as the time before when Jesus first came, because ALL NOW MUST GO THROUGH JESUS to get to God.

So, stop using those scriptures to prove OSAS. In addition, stop using those scriptures to support the false doctrines of John Calvin.

 

I have proven it, because it is the word of God. Was not Jesus on earth physically, as he said those words? Yes, Jesus was on earth physically when he was on earth. John 6:39 is quoting Jesus speaking while on earth in a physical body. Did Jesus not offer salvation FIRST to the lost sheep of Israel? Yes, Jesus first came to offer salvation to the lost sheep of Israel. The people were already God’s, now they would become Jesus’ people. Those who did not believe in God, they were hardened. God did not allow them to come to Jesus. Only a remnant, the lost sheep of Israel would come to Jesus (Matthew 10:6; 15:24). John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. See also, John 3:37, 39; 6:65; 10:28; 15:21-24; 16:3; 17:2, 9, 24; Romans 11:4, 5, 7; Hebrews 12:23; 11:39-40. John 8:19 Then they asked him, "Where is your father?” "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."
How many times do I have to prove it to you? Stop rejecting the truth.

 

What is so hard to understand what I said? Jesus came FIRST for the Jews, the Jews who already belonged to God.

Jesus came FIRST for the Jews, and not ALL the Jews, only the Jews who loved God.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15: 21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

Jesus was not saving Gentiles when Jesus was on earth. Gentiles were able to come to God after Jesus was lifted up.

John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

Gentiles could NOT be reconciled to God until after the vision Peter had. What do you think Peter's vision was about?!

How do you get such nonsense?

You are guilty of all the false judging you have done to me.

Your learning of Greek and English sentence structure has proved to be a snare for you, a snare the devil has caught you with to do his work. You reject the truth. Your false teachings cause division and confusion.

 

And I will add a hearty AMEN to to that. :wavey:

 

I don't play the banjo, but I do agree in the assessment Michael Wrenn has just given. :thumbsup:

 

My view regarding eternal security, based on the testimony found in Gods scripturers is....

Once any lost person embraces Christ..through faith alone...they are permanently and eternally secured in Gods love and protection at that moment.

Nothing...nothing...nothing... that can possibly be emagined, or done, in any way shape or form, can cause that child of the living God to ever be lost.

Can wrong behavior or attitudes effect loss of rewards...yes. Can wrong behavior effect our lives negatively here on earth...yes.

But absolutely (((NOTHING))) can affect their status as a child of God.

 

I would certainly not agree with your stated beliefs on OSAS, Alive in Christ. The penalty for sin is NEVER represented in Scripture as loss of rewards for anyone period. That is simply Calvinistic conjecture NOT Scriptural doctrine.

 

Heavanly Pilgrim...

Well, your comment is very interesting, considering I that I am very "anti" Calvinism. I consider calvinism to be exceedingly filled with substantial error and and horrific false teaching.

Every bit as hellish as the idea that a redeemed, sealed permanently in Gods care, totally forgiven for all eternity, child of God can be damned.

And the scriptures clearly teach the gaining of, or, loss of, rewards.

 

The strangest doctrine I have ever heard is that every thing that is anti-HP is attributable to Calvin. It is his fault for any thing that HP is against.