europe needs missionary's more then ever

Discussion in 'Missions / Witnessing / eVangelism' started by langelaarus, May 22, 2003.

  1. langelaarus

    langelaarus
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    i believe that we have a neglected mission field and that is europe. things are changing so rapidly there. and the muslims are gaining terrytory, it is only a matter of time and europe wil exist out of muslim states.
     
  2. Ben W

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    Many countries in Europe restrict Denominations from starting up.

    In Estonia only denominations that were there prior to the russian take over are permitted to operate.
     
  3. mark

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    Rene, I disagree with you. I went through the course "Experiencing God" and taught it. The guide principle of this is:"When you see where God is working, go and join Him." IMO God is not at work in Europe at the same level as He is in Latin America and parts of Asia and Africa. We are called to be stewards with our resources, where human or material. When we send missionaries to Brazil, Guyana, Ecuador, etc, we see many many coming to Christ. Our church supports several missionaries in France and Germany and other parts of Europe and it is years before anyone even attends a service. That is not to say one person's salvation is not important, but as a steward I need to recognize that a person's salvation in Peru is every bit as important to God as one in France. If my dollar in giving can help bring Christ to 100 in Latin America or 1 in Europe (or Japan, where the Gospel is also rejected) then I will should be supporting the work in Latin America. You can look at it at missionary per person or missionary per convert. The bang for the buck (and I am talking all resources, including prayer, human, everything) is not in Europe.
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

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    Mark, I think I must disagree with you on this one, but only on this point: In my opinion, God is at work in Europe, especially in the less developed countries. There are quite a few fellowships developing in the old soviet republics that, although hampered by national/cultural policies, are flourishing. I give you, for example, the SBC (MD & GA state conventions) support of missions in Moldova, for instance, where many are coming to know the Lord under very trying circumstances.

    It may be that this is less well known to protect those who, worshipping in secret, may be harmed if their activities come to the attention of their governments.
     
  5. mark

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    I am pleased to hear of these examples. Maybe I shouldn't paint an entire continent, but I think what I said is still mostly true for most of developed western Europe. Thanks for the correction.
     
  6. USN2Pulpit

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    That's the key...developed countries in Europe vs. the underdeveloped ones.
     
  7. Ben W

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    How many people would be aware that France is predomiantley Catholic, and that Protestant type denominations are not growing much at all.
     
  8. Ulsterman

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    Mark's line of reasoning would have disqualified Noah from financial support! Imagine 120 years of preaching and only 8 souls saved. What a failure! Your missionary dollar does not pay for souls saved, the blood of Christ does that. Your missionary dollar pays for a man to preach the gospel - wherever, whether in Latin America or Western Europe, the key thing is that the gospel is preached. God's Word does not return unto Him void, it may bring salvation in mass to some, and condemnation in mass to others, the key thing is that God is glorified and that the lost hear. (Romans 10:14)
     
  9. Major B

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    I lived in Europe for 3 years, 1984-87, and I saw lots of churches, and they were empty for the most part. I attended an English-Speaking IFB, but I had some contact with German Evangelicals, and they are a very small minority in the country. The established churches have lots of members, but little activity. It seemed to be worse in France.

    The Middle East had the Gospel for 600 years, then they were overtaken by Islam, and except for small minority groups, there are no Christians there.

    Europe has had the Gospel for 1600-2000 years, depending on what region you are talking about, and it may be that they are going to go the way of the Middle East. The rapid growth of the Faith today is in Africa and South America.
     
  10. mark

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    David,
    we are talking about two different issues. Noah was a HOME Missionary. he was preaching to his neighbors. I have no problem with the French witnessing to the French, but if we SEND missionaries, we should send them to places where they can do the best. The salvation of 1 Brazilian is every bit as important as 1 German, but that isn't the current exchange rate, it is 10 or 100 Brazilians to 1 German.
     
  11. Squire Robertsson

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    Mark: God has not called us to be successful He has called us to be faithful. If a missionary is called of God to France, I and my church (everything else being equal) will support him to the same extent as we do the missionaries we support on Luzon.

    And considering, I serve in Corinth-by-the-Bay (aka San Francisco, CA) by your measure, my church should have packed up and move to the 'burbs long ago. In so doing, we would have left the inner city to the pagans and heathens because the picking' are slim.
     
  12. mark

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    Squire and Major B,
    Again you are not making a distinction between home and foreign missions. YOU should be ministering in Corinth by the Sea, and I should be a light in Iowa. I am NOT saying that you should abandon SF, I should not abandon Chariton. We are responsible for our friends, our family our neighbors. We are also to be stewards of the resources God has given us. Your argument values the salvation of a European much higher than that of a South American or African. I believe that in God's eyes the African and South American is every bit as valuable. So if God has blessed us with the resources to give and we give to save 1 rather than save 10 we are being poor stewrds. When we throw our resources to places not bearing fruit are like the man in the Bible who dug a hole and buried the money the master had given him. When the master returns we will be asked to show how we invested what he gave us.
    Mark
     
  13. Squire Robertsson

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    </font>
    • It's Corinth by the Bay</font>
    • I am not placing a value on souls.</font>
    • I am following the rubic the Holy Spirit caused Paul to write:
      In Western Europe, many coutries have had their spiritual ground compressed by the steamrollers of humanism, atheism, and Roman Catholicism. So, it has only been in the last 20+ years that there has been an opportunity for a planting of the Gospel after 200 years.</font>
    • None of the missionaries, I or my home church supports, are under a denominational Board.</font>
    • As I look at my church's missionary prayer list, I see that out of the 40 or so names and ministries listed at home and abroad only 6+/- are in Western Europe.</font>

    [ May 27, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]
     
  14. Ingo Breuer

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    I am glad you mention this subject about Europe because I am a German living in the beautiful state of Tennessee. I got saved in 1995 as a result of a Christian radio broadcast from WWCR .

    Only here in the US I have found contact with a local, Bible-believing, Baptist church. There was none in my mainly Catholic homeland. Germany is suffering from a disease called leftist liberalism. And if you have seen the ungodly billboard ads beside the Frankfurt airport or the ungodly agenda of Gerhard Schroeder you know what I mean. And that is just the tip of the ice berg.

    Now the Lord has called me to preach and that is what I have been doing for a year now here in Tennessee. But still there is a burden on my heart to see people saved and baptized into the fellowship of local churches and taught in the ways of the Bible rather than the dead traditions of the state churches. Right now I am trying to reach Germany through my Christian website ( English and German )and I am making some contacts, but it is sad to see how many folks don't want the Gospel to reach their hearts. No, the Germans try to explain it away with their minds. Lord, help them. The website contains audio sermons, way of salvation messages, free newsletter, right to life page, creation page, etc.
    But there is more on my heart for Europe, and specifically Germany. I have a burning desire to preach on the streets. Germany has all these pedestrian precincts in the downtown areas and there you have thousands of people walking by. By now I have never preached on the streets, but I am looking for a place where to do that. I live in a rural small town and there you might preach to a few cars that drive by. Probably Nashville would be the next best place for that.
    I kindly ask you, my baptistboard brothers and sisters, to help me a little in reaching the folks back home and telling them that Jesus saves and that he has made an atonement for their sin.
    If you know people in Germany, have relatives over there, know anybody who spends time there, then tell them to go to my Gospel website at GuteBotschaft.com . If you are going to travel to Germany, please let me know and I'll send you a bunch of Gospel tracts that you can pass out while you are over there.
    And please: if you know how to fly to Germany at the lowest of low fares, please write me. This is so enormously vital to stay in touch with the people over there. One of the people over there that I am familiar with is a Baptist missionary who started a church in Heidelberg. Click here to see more of this church in Germany.

    Finally, dear brothers and sisters at baptistboard.com. please pray for me, that the Lord will open me a door of utterance to speak the Gospel to the Germans, that He will let me know what He wants me to do, that He will be with me in the street ministry, and that precious souls will be saved. I really desire your prayers and please reply and let me know that you pray and believe for this. Pray that people over there will be touched by the German sermons I am about to prepare and publish on the website. They need to break the stiff neck of the sinner and melt the heart of the hard-hearted transgessor. So they can receive Jesus and be with Him for all eternity.
     
  15. Ben W

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    Ingo, May God grant you the desires of your heart.
     
  16. mark

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    My Dear Squire,
    I stand corrected, Corinth by the Sea. My bad. ;) If you have 6 missionaries to Europe out of 40, that is about 15% of missions support to a continent that has 12% of the world's population. I know my church has about the same. Disregarding the idea of directing missionaries to where God is more at work, I would be interested to see the numbers on percentages of missionaries to the different parts of the world. The original premise was that Europe wasn't getting its share of missionaries. I bet it is, I don't know and I don't know where to look for the answer either. Just for comparisions:
    12.2% of people live in Africa
    61.5% of people live in Asia
    0.3% of people live in Australia
    5.7% of people live in South America
    7.9% of people live in North America
    12.2% of people live in Europe
    and 0.2 live in the Islands of the Pacific.
    I wonder how the missionary percentages break down.
     
  17. Squire Robertsson

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    I would remind you that this was written by a Filipino member. Further, the premise is that left to its self, Europe (and I'll add at this point France, England, Germany, Holland, and Belgium in particular) will suffer a reversal of Charles Martel's victory. Islam is the rising tide in the countries mentioned above. We faced a preview of the Islam factor in the European opposition to the Iraqi War.

    My point being the issue of Europe's needs is raised by a member whose homeland would benefit from a pragmatic view of missions. I hasten to add as an aside that not all of the folks and activities mentioned on my home church's prayer list receive monetary support. For many, the support they receive is simply prayer support.
     
  18. mark

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    Hmmm, so would the purpose be to keep Europe Agnostic? I am not being silly or sarcastic. Christianity has been in Europe for 2,000 years and we (American Christians) have a lot of missionaries there now and yet CHristianity is not capturing the hearts and souls of the Europeans. What promise does Islam hold that these people who who would reject Christianity would choose to embrace the teachings of the Quran? Squire and all, please believe me I am not being sarcastic here. Turkey was where the 7 churches of Revelation was and it is now 99% Muslim. We know it can happen, but WHY?
     
  19. Squire Robertsson

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    The problem is not so much that the ethnic Europeans are going Islamic. The problem is that the birthrate for ethnic Europeans especially in Fance and Germany is so low. The growth in births is found in the population of Islamic immigrants both in the initial foreign born generation and in the follow on native born generations. Already in France, the Islamic vote was considered a factor in M. Chirac's vehement, strident and almost adversarial language and position on the Iraq War. In France, the Islamic community comes from France's former colonial holdings in North and West Africa.

    In Germany, its citizenship law, did it need changing and if so how to do it was a factor in the last national election. German law (dating back IIRC to the 20s) currently does not allow for automatic citizenship for persons born within its borders (in contrast to the US's 14th Amendment rule). As more young Turks cut the ties to their parents and grandparents homeland, more will apply for German citizenship and vote.
    I am standing by for correction on this last paragraph as I may have misperceived the actual state of German law.
     
  20. mark

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    Interesting...... and distressing
     

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