Evangelicals support torture ???

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ASLANSPAL, Jul 12, 2006.

  1. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,318
    Likes Received:
    0

    Agape Press link

    snippet:
    It is unfortunate, says the IRD spokesman, that some high-profile leaders like mega-church pastor Rick Warren and Ted Haggard of the National Association of Evangelicals have signed on to the document.


    Here's a thought. Because some of us don't want to live in Saudi Arabia, China or North Korea. And because most expect more from America than we expect from a totalitarian dictatorship and male dominated whacked out religious states.

    Torture and humiliation is not approved by Jesus one bit! this country the only super power should lead by example and not get into the pigsty like others.
     
  2. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Evangelicals support torture ???

    Not exactly.

    Let me quote part of the article...

    "A conservative Christian leader says the organization known as the National Religious Campaign Against Torture isn't saying anything about torture in places like North Korea, China, and Saudi Arabia -- but instead is focusing its ire upon the U.S. and the Bush administration."

    The fact that the document does not deal with known places of severe torture and human rights abuses, but only focuses on problems the US is having (both real and alleged), says alot about the people who wrote the document.

    I agree with the following quote...

    "If this group were genuinely interested in torture, of course they would be addressing those regimes that actively and deliberately do practice torture rather than focusing exclusively on the United States," he comments. He says he detects a "double standard" in the campaign against torture. "[It] is primarily a creation of the religious left and whose interest is not so much in torture, per se, but about opposing U.S. foreign policy."

    Bingo! That hit the nail on the head.

    We are all against torture. This document is not getting support because of its author's perceived motivations, and its clear double standard.
     
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Amen, agreed.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,348
    Likes Received:
    789
    Blame America first, Isreal second, everyone else gets a pass.
     
  5. The Galatian

    The Galatian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2001
    Messages:
    9,687
    Likes Received:
    0
    Double standard? You bet. I think America should be better than North Korea. Don't you? If America does right, I don't care what the rest of the world says. If it's doing wrong, I don't care who else is doing it, I want America to stop.

    The "everyone else is doing it" argument is just an excuse for sinning.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,348
    Likes Received:
    789
    Actually I can see why an American group would be concerned primarily about America being involved in torture. It makes sense.

    The way they go about doing it often empowers the enemy. Dissent is one thing, but bashing, demoralizing, demonizing, hating is what usually happens in place of dissent.
     
  7. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==We are better than they are. We don't have firing squads as North Korea does. I saw a undercover film on CNN where they "executed" (term used lightly) two men for trying to leave North Korea. We are not doing that. We are not cutting people's heads off, and doing what can only be described as un-natural things to the bodies. We are not chopping off people's hands, cutting out their tongues, or anything like that. So we are better than they are.

    Do we have "bad apples" in our military? Of course. There are bad apples in every single profession in life (teachers, preachers, lawyers, etc). Those "bad apples" are being punished by our justice system. So the system is working. I don't see any of those other countries punishing those who commit crimes against humanity. In North Korea's case it is the government itself that is doing those crimes.

    So our problems, while troubling, cannot even begin to be compared to what is going on in some of those other countries. We have a system of law(s), that system (usually) works, and it is working now. US soldiers who commit crimes will be, and are, punished by our justice system. The way they should be. The fact that we have a system of justice that will deal with criminals also makes us better than many of them are.
     
  8. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    On the other hand, we give most nations a run for their money in the number of executions each year. We don't shoot them, we electrocute them (or mercifully euthanize them by lethal injection). While we don't officially do unnatural things to the prisoners, we do put them in a situation where other prisoners will do it for us.

    Yeah, we're better than them, but by enough?
     
  9. hill

    hill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's interesting that you can know what Jesus approves or disapproves when he didn't address it in the Word.
     
  10. hill

    hill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    What if you have Johnny Bad Guy, and he knows where your prisoner son or daughter is, and only the info you can get from him will save them?
    Try reasoning?
    Beg?
    Empty threats?

    Good taste prevents me from telling you my methods. Besides, these terrorists are generally cowards and sing like sparrows.
     
  11. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==There is nothing wrong with the death penalty (read your Bible) if used properly (ie...murderers, etc). The Government has the right to use the death penalty. Look, however, at the difference between the way we go about using the death penalty and the way countries like North Korea us it. They catch someone trying to leave their country (etc) and they are lined up, shot, and killed. We don't use the death penalty without a trial and we don't execute someone for trying to leave our country. Criminals, no matter how evil, have rights in our courts. We are way, way better than North Korea.

    As I said, those in the US military who have treated prisoners the wrong way are being, and will be, punished. So, once again, we are better.
     
  12. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Biblically, the Government can do whatever it wants, including nailing the Saviour to a cross and letting Him hang until He's dead. I don't find that a particularly compelling argument.

    Yet we execute nearly as many people - we're up there in the top ten, you know (possibly because we keep an accurate count of formal executions). I agree with you that it's good that we do it better.

    Some are, some aren't. The lower the rank, the more likely some punishment is - but even then, unless it is caught on camera, it isn't very likely at all.
     
  13. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==God ordered the death penalty to be used in the Old Testament. He gave the government the right to carry out the death penalty, and to use the sword (ex: Gen 9:6, Lev 20:9-16, Rom 13:4). God has also used the death penalty for bringing about the redemption of mankind. It would be odd indeed if God is against the death penalty yet He ordered that the death penalty be carried out in the Old Testament's Levitical Law for Israel, gave the government the sword, and used the death penalty to bring salvation to mankind.

    God has given human government the right to use the death penalty. Certainly that right has been abused by evil men (Is 10:1ff). Yet there is the proper use of the death penalty (military force, police force, etc) which the Bible never condemns (ex: 1Sam 17:45-54, 2Sam 5:17-25, etc).
     

Share This Page

Loading...