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Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 26, 2006.
How very sad
Mr Jensen is NOT a Christian by any since of the word. But by his new association, if it isn't a lie just for his story, may he come to know Christ and accept him as his savior. If not he will join the multitude in eternal suffering.
I think this story does emphasize that the word Christian has a demographic connotation that is independent of theology and personal belief.
Hopefully his exposure to Christ in his new community will have him come to know Christ personally as his savior and be more than just a demographic Christian which has some temporary value but not same as the full temporaral and eternal value of making Christ Lord of his life.
I don't think that is a Christian church. Not one mention of the blood of Christ. Plenty of his compassion, & teachings.....
But Christ's compassion and teachings won't amount to a hill of beans without his death.
Wow... how terrible.
I can't get this web page to pull up. Perhaps it is my web server at this moment. Do you have the URL for the article handy?
Wow....he's way off base.
I also question any church that would allow one to join under such pretence. "The pastor and most of the congregation at St. Andrew's understand my reasons for joining, realizing that I didn't convert in a theological sense but joined a moral and political community." (from the above website listed by Joseph)
Then, I REALLY wondered about him when I looked at the title of the book he authored at the end of his article.
WOW! The pastor knew that he didn't believe in Jesus as his Savior and that he doesn't believe in life after death, and he was allowed to join anyway???????? My church wouldn't allow that.
One point that you may be missing is that even though they state they believe in Jesus many "Christians" are no different at heart...
They look at Jesus' Core values; they see the Good Works of the Church; they stay involved with the "Institution" of the church...
But, they have no relationship with Christ...
We may marvel at Mr. jensen's "Gall"...
But, unfortunately, he is more honset than a lot of church attendees...
Something to ponder...
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Hey, wouldn't most pastors prefer honest members than just another hypocrit?
At least knowing he is not saved saves a lot of convincing...
But, should a church permit an admitted non-believer to join? Churches that I've visited and all that I have joined over the years have had verbal and written policies about one's beliefs. All are welcome in God's house...I firmly believe that. But, should an admitted non-believer be permitted to join? This is a thinker......
No they shouldn't.
You read my mind.....
Yes, I *do* agree that conveying formal Membership was a bit too much...
Perhaps there was an ulterior motive?
To goad the professing "Christians" to become Possesing Christians?
Just a thought...
This points again to the truthfulness of the statement. "Only a fool has said in his heart"
What are "Christian values"? Just among Baptists there seems to be a very wide range of values.
I imagine the Church let him join in hopes of saving his soul.
I know some unbelievers, and to a person the thing they don't have is a built-in social community to be a part of, particularly when bad times come. Perhaps this person is seeking that, although I don't imagine he will ever feel totally comfortable.
It is like the Superman movie, where Jor-El says about baby Kal-El, "He will look like one of them", and Lara replies, "He won't BE one of them."
Oh, the answer is from the same web-site which is St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church, "A progressive spiritual family living God's love and grace".
Again, I say any church, Baptist, Evangelical, or Church of Christ (the 3 versions I've been a member of) allow anyone and everyone. But, only professing believers join the church. In joining, one is making a statement that Jesus is Lord and Savior of my (his/her) life. That Jesus died for my sins and that he rose again...etc, etc.
We all need to be missionaries and bring non-believers to Christ, but allowing a professing non-believer to join is wrong.
1. Jesus said in his first sermon that he had come to preach good news to the poor.
Jesus' FIRST sermon was Repentance Matt. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mark 1:14 ¶ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
2. Thomas' doubts were no more or less than the other Disciples. They all (with the possible exception of John) doubted the Resurrection.
3.those who blaspheme the Spirit (of love) would not be.
While Love is one of the characteristics of the Spirit, the primary one is Holy.
4. This church? seems to be preaching it's own religion and not a relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.